Eileen:

Hello and welcome to Soul of a Leader podcast where we ignite soulful conversations with leaders. In today’s episode, Dr. Alicia and Dr. Eileen sit with the founder of Imerman Angels and co-founder of Cloz Talk, Jonny Imerman to discuss bringing the world together by leading with one soul.

 

Alicia:

Hello and welcome to Soul of a Leader podcast where we share inspirational leadership stories of ordinary people with extraordinary impact. Jonny Immerman and brother Jeff Immerman co-founded CLOZTALK.com in 2017. CLOZTALK.com is a social impact company as a free online directory of a hundred and vetted nonprofit organizations across the US. It also runs a free online shopping store for each nonprofits logo apparel, producing the apparel and one-offs. CLOZTALK mission is to spread the word for important nonprofits. The motto is 100% free for nonprofits and 0% work or risk. Big Brothers, Big Sisters, Muscular Dystrophy Association and Global Lyme Alliance are three of the 180 members of CLOZTALK.com. Jonny is a young adult cancer survivor who strives to make sure no one fights cancer without the support of someone who has already triumphed over the disease. Please welcome Johnny Immerman to Soul of a Leader.

 

Eileen:

Well, thank you Jonny for being on our show today. We’re very excited to talk to you about how leading with your soul can change the world and also connect the world. As we look at your website Cloz Talk and how you are changing the world with connecting people to do good, to do better for themselves, to do better for others. So can you share with us how you may think to lead with your soul means to you or how you are an authentic leader passionately around your business, and also your Imerman Angels, wonderful organization, which I’ve been involved in.

 

Johnny:

Well, thank you guys so much for having me, Eileen. Always a pleasure and Dr. Alicia, what a pleasure to know you as well and to do this with you guys. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, I’m a huge believer that movements out there start with small groups of people. You know, it’s never just one person, it’s a group of people who all see something and have a vision together that we can make a movement to change and solve a real social problem. To help people that are in suffering or people that don’t have resources or whatever their challenge is and a quick background, I am from the Detroit area. Grew up about 20 minutes outside of Detroit and in my twenties, at 26 I got diagnosed with a pretty advanced testicular cancer sort of out of the blue, went through chemo, went through surgeries, the better part of two years.

 

Johnny:

I moved in with my mother. A single 26-year-old, a guy she used to drive me to about eight hours of chemo a day or so, but here’s the important part. Through all the treatments, living through it, a group of survivors and I got together at the end and it was really clear to us. You know, it was like a small group of survivors that said, you know what? When we started this cancer fight, we didn’t know anyone who’d been through the same fight and would it have been amazing to know somebody the same age, same gender, a guy or a girl just like you who already walked the same walk, beat cancer can show you the roadmap ahead, teach you what’s coming and say you can do this. I did this and here’s everything I know about it and I’ll share it with you as your friend, your big brother or big sister to help you.

 

Johnny:

And so we created a nonprofit that just really grassroots, grew one person at a time and today it’s over 11,000 cancer survivors and families across almost a hundred countries. In all 50 States, we’ve got amazing people. The idea works because survivors care and cancer survivors are grateful and they want to give back and they volunteer their stories and so we buddy them up. We first get to know them, train them and we screen them. They’re survivors of all different types of cancer, but then we plug them in one to one to maybe someone here in New York that is going through esophageal cancer.

 

Johnny:

Someone we know beat esophageal cancer and they’re the same age, same gender. Sometimes people want someone the same race, the same sexual orientation, you know whatever they want. We find someone similar to them who beat it and these survivors one-to-one, make sure nobody fights alone and we also donate of course. We’re not profitable yet, but we hope to be profitable probably in the next year and a half to two years. In year four, which is a pretty industry standard, we break even then we’re able to donate 20% as soon as there are profits. 20% of our net profits back to our charity. So we want to raise awareness for the causes, but we also, want to donate and as we grow we can give more and more back to our awesome causes that just need to get the word out.

 

Eileen:

Well I mean that is just… Your story is just wonderful and it’s like you’re leading with love. You’re leading with your soul and in each one of your organizations, it seems like there was a gap. You found the gap and you closed it, especially with Cloz Talk. I mean I can tell you the styles are very fashionable. You want to wear them so you should look at the website and you’re doing good by supporting this and many, many different organizations. But Jonny what was the awakening or how did it feel when you found the gap? You said you needed to do something and you act. What was the passion behind it? What was your purpose and how did your heart and head conflict at all to make this execute and make these dreams come true?

 

Johnny:

Well, thank you guys for your kind words and Eileen, I think what it was that… I’m a big believer in social entrepreneurs. You have to really think it through and love the idea enough because it’s so hard to build and there are so many challenges and so many no’s and so many tech problems that don’t work on your site so many times that the production system just doesn’t work and you’ve got to just keep fixing, fixing, fixing and then breaking a little more than fixing. You have to sort of love it. You have to love it so much that you’re going to persist and you’re going to power through all the challenges and the pitfalls and the hurdles and you just kind of find a way to go through it but what I’ve learned, this is our third startup and the first one crashed and burned within like a year and a half and it taught me a great lesson.

 

Johnny:

I didn’t love it enough and I was younger then. It was the very first one and I’ve sort of pulled the trigger. I got excited about something shiny and I quit when it got hard and I got very upset at myself because I don’t want to think of myself as a quitter, but I realize later now that I’m older and I’m 44, I realized I didn’t choose the right thing. I didn’t love it enough to get through the marathon. I quit at like mile six which is terrible but that’s the truth and, what I’ve learned with Imerman Angels, we were always doing it. The group was always doing Imerman Angels on the side and I just never thought of doing it full time.

 

Johnny:

So when startup one failed, and again it’s an expensive lesson, but it was learning. It’s an education, it’s failing forward. I think it’s always positive. It helped me get over the fear of trying again and that’s good. Right? That’s a positive thing.

 

Alicia:

Very positive. Yes.

 

Johnny:

Right. And I knew with Imerman Angels, I was doing it for years. We were doing it for years. We were mentoring people, we had a group and we were just doing it as volunteers and we weren’t a 501(c), we just did it off the cuff and we knew we loved it and so finally when that one… Start-up one didn’t work. I said… You know, my friends said to me, you should do Imerman Angels full time and they gave me the courage to do it and we ended up doing it and that’s how we’ve got through all the challenges but I think when you about execution Eileen, the only way to execute is to keep making mistakes and surrounding yourself with great people that are in there with you and when one person loses hope and you’re like, Oh, this isn’t going to work.

 

Johnny:

Then somebody else says, yes, it is. Like, let’s just keep pushing forward. You got to work as a team. You know you can’t do it alone. Start-ups are not for people by themselves. I don’t know anyone who can do it by themselves and so we just persisted but we loved it enough and we knew it worked and I’ll tell you one of the key parts that we persisted because every time we had somebody with non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma B cell, a 35-year-old with stage three and we hooked him up with another woman with the same thing, who beat that five years ago and you put these in the same room, the feedback loop was almost instantaneous they knew right away.

 

Johnny:

They’d be like, “Oh my God, we love each other.” You know and the one that was sick would say, “I just answered… I had a hundred questions in the last three hours… We talked for three hours. I had a hundred questions answered. I’m so inspired. I can do this. My mentor did this. I love her. She’s amazing.” Then we knew it worked because we saw it in a vacuum with just one-to-one and then we were like, we just scale it. Let’s just scale. We just need more people, more people, one-to-one, one-to-one, but the feedback was the fuel that we knew there was something here because people told us. They were not shy to tell us when these connections and these friendships changed their entire world and changed their mindsets.

 

Alicia:

Wow.

 

Johnny:

 Yeah, it helped us power forward.

 

Alicia:

So you know, you talk a lot about the connection which is great and there’s a sense of leadership in that because you know how to connect people. There is also that gratitude part of wanting to pull people together and there is a sense of gratitude of doing that but talk a little bit about some of the challenges that you may have had to get those involved with you, to challenge them to be their best or to challenge them to understand what the mission and the vision are for your organization.

 

Johnny:

Yes. There’s always challenges Dr. Like there’s a million, there still are like… You have to be comfortable with it.

 

Alicia:

Right.

 

Johnny:

You have to learn to like a little chaos and like when things break and kind of find a way to laugh instead of quitting or giving up, you just can’t give up. So you just… You get knocked down and we’re going to get knocked down tomorrow. This is how it works but you see the bigger vision and again, you’ve got to love it enough. Because if you don’t love it [crosstalk 00:11:40]. Yeah, you got to love it. You got to believe so much in it and I can tell you of all the ideas in the world I could be working on in the whole world, I would choose Cloz Talk. It’s the [crosstalk 00:11:53], going to do and it’s been that way for a while now. Years. And so I love it.

 

Johnny:

I enjoy it. I love the people we help. I love learning about new nonprofits. I love getting to know the leaders, their stories, why they built it. Some of them are so innovative and creative, I never would have thought of these ideas and there’s the learning and you’re helping them and it’s free for them and it’s the best feeling to help promote them and help to get them out there and brand them without ever taking anything from them and no risk to them. So I love the concept so much, but there’s going to be challenged. We have challenges every single day and again, you’ve got to love the idea enough to power through the challenges. Specifically our challenges with Imerman Angels. Clearly the tech. When I think of challenges, technology was the biggest one for sure. You know, how to have a database that can hold over 11,000 families and all their cancer stories and then keep it active.

 

Johnny:

You know, next year somebody might have something changed or another treatment or they might have sadly had a recurrence of their cancer. Like how to keep it alive, how to keep it fresh, how to match people with the system, how to do… We now have a way, when you match someone with cancer with a survivor, we send an automatic email through Salesforce or technology system. So both sides, two weeks in saying, did you connect? Was it a good fit? Basically, a quality assurance emails to make sure that it’s working. You know, we got to know that it’s a good fit and if not, it’s still free. We’ll match you up with somebody else.

 

Johnny:

That’s the beauty of the network and the beauty of the team that’s so deep, but you got to have these things and technology is not my thing and a lot of us in the team were like passionate and we’re sort of vision type people, but we needed to have structure and technology and finally after three tries, on our fourth try we got to Salesforce and that’s been our best. With Cloz Talk, I’ll tell you the number one challenge I’d say, to us, it’s very straight forward that this is a free model. It’s non-exclusive. Charities can still make their apparel. They can do whatever they want. There are no limitations.

 

Johnny:

In the worst-case scenario, you just get free exposure on our site but getting the cheer… Some of the nonprofits out there to get in with us and listen because the model is so different. It doesn’t exist anywhere in the world. I mean we’ve searched high and low and we have not found anyone else with the same model, which is great because we love that it’s new and it’s ..but the problem but getting… and some of the nonprofits, they don’t think it’s possible. They don’t see this big vision that we have that wait if a lot of people are wearing your shirts and the shirts are quality and they wear them three, four times a week at the gym, at a Cubs game, at a Yankees game, wherever you are in the country, that does help them.

 

Johnny:

Some of the nonprofits don’t think marketing, which is really why we created Cloz Talk because we’re helping them for free brand themselves but sometimes they don’t even see that that’s a good thing. They don’t see that that helps them but in our minds, it’s very clear. The more they’re branded, the people out there that are potential to support them, they can join them but you got to reach them with your mission and your name and who you are. You know you got to get the word out.

 

Eileen:

And Johnny, when I heard it’s like you’re nourishing the shared vision that you have and other nonprofit have close to heart and inspiring commitment to it and with both your organizations as I see it there was a clear purpose, a vision, and an execution. Do you believe… I know you shared your age and how you’re doing. Do you believe that your purpose and your vision is still growing as a leader? Leading with your soul and leading with love and leading with a passion.

 

Eileen:

I mean, do you foresee by leading this way and making sure you are grateful, sharing your vision. You have faith in a shared vision. You lead with your soul. You’re making a difference in other people’s life. You’re so grateful and you’re challenging others to be their best. Do you foresee more startups in your future? More… You know how you’re going to move on from here because this is quite impressive, so I’m excited just to hearing all of this.

 

Johnny:

Well, thank you, Eileen, for your kind words and I’ll tell you, I’m only as good as the people around me and with Cloz Talk I’ve got my brother Jeff who is my best friend and he is a lawyer by background and he was a journalist. He was a TV anchor even before that and I kind of pulled him away to the social impact world but that’s been the thing that has helped me a lot is finding great people that can do things that I can’t and there are so many things that I can’t do. I feel like there are so few things that I can do but when you find people around you that can help. My brother’s very detail-oriented. He’s really good to make sure the designs are perfect and that the system is streamlined. That when an order goes through to a small or MDA and needs to be drop-shipped to New York. Like is everything working the right way? Is it exactly the right packaging? Is it all working the way we want it to work?

 

Johnny:

He does a lot of the detail type stuff and yes, you’re right Eileen, you know me. There’s probably going to be another thing along the way with Cloz Talk once we accomplish this mission and we get it to where it needs to be, where we have awareness for every awesome charity out there and people know them and so they can do more and get more resources. Yes. I probably, I would have to guess we’ll see something along the way that we haven’t seen yet that I will get fixated on and try to solve another problem. I would say there’s a very likely chance that it will be in the social impact world, which Imerman Angels was and so is Cloz Talk and probably the next one will too.

 

Johnny:

To be honest, those are the only things that I get fired up about and I’m willing to work seven days a week for and I think that’s why we’re here on this planet, is to all contribute and try to find a way to solve social problems and it’s fun. I’d be honest, I love it. It’s fun. I enjoy the people. Just people like you guys that are doing great things and I know Dr. Alicia, you’re teaching over at DePaul and you’re teaching over at NorthShore and I think it’s so important… Like the people we’re around, it’s just fun. I mean, they’re all people who care about people outside themselves and want to work together and collaborate to help people that have less or help animals that are headed towards a kill shelter or people that are homeless.

 

Johnny:

I mean, whatever it is. There are so many problems out there and I think that’s why we’re here in this short world and if you know anyone that’s gone through cancer, I feel like everybody does… A lot of us, I think feel this way and it impacts the work you do because we’re not going to be here forever, so let’s work on things. Let’s make a living that you can live your life, but let’s work on things that matter to make the world better and help people outside of ourselves. It can’t be just about us. I don’t think anyone can be really happy when they’re only doing things to serve themselves.

 

Eileen:

Yeah, we’re all connected and you know we are humankind and I’ve had on my LinkedIn profile for years, if you’re not opening doors for others, you’re closing them. So we are aligned with what you just said and there’s so much… You know, a servant leader, giving back because we’ve all been so grateful to receive. So that’s wonderful. Thank you Jonny.

 

Alicia:

Yeah. And I think Jonny too, as we beginning to close, you have a sense of compassion and passionate spirituality connected and I think that what you are doing is so wonderful and amazing and with that, can you leave us with some words of wisdom?

 

Johnny:

Well, thank you both for your kind words. I have been lucky. People like… Friends like you guys, I have been lucky to be friends with great people and everyone wants to help each other and I think all of these ships rise together when we’re working together and we’re partnering and we’re sharing ideas and we’re all friends. I mean that’s the best part to me at the social impact world and yes, parting ideas… I hate to go back to the same thing, but it’s so in my core. If you’re going to solve a social problem out there, love it, love it. You gotta, love it.

 

Johnny:

You know to pick the one that you love the most and we’re all different. You might’ve grown up in a big town or a small town or you might be affected by this disease or that disease or you might just love animals. There are so many ways to help choose the one that fits you the best that you love most. I think that’s the right channel for you. And this is important I feel too if you’re going to start a nonprofit or solve a social movement or start a social movement first make sure that it’s not already out there. If it’s already out there, go join them. You know we’re all stronger together. Find a way to work with them.

 

Alicia:

Absolutely.

 

Johnny:

Put smart minds together. We’re going to do more. We don’t need more brands that sell the social problem. We need more people that are only doing things that aren’t being solved, right? We need to collaborate. We need to work together, I think.

So if you want to get out there and you want to solve a social problem and you see, Oh well, there’s already a nonprofit out there doing it, go join them. Go volunteer for them. To apply for a job with them.

 

Johnny:

Join their board, whatever you want to do but we are strong believers. We did Imerman Angels. We first looked around and we literally couldn’t find it. We did not want to start this, but we wanted to join somebody else’s group. They plug us in as survivors and it didn’t exist. So then we built it, but I’m a big believer join them if it’s already being done if it’s not being done and you love it enough then go build it. That’s the right time to go do it.

 

Eileen:

So Johnny, thank you so much regarding sharing about love and how you lead with love and there’s a quote that I’d like to share with everybody that is aligned to your leadership style and it’s by Pierre Teilhard de Chardin and it says, “The day will come when after harnessing the ethers, the winds, the tides, the gravitation. We shall harness for God the energies of love and on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man would have discovered fire.” So that’s how I feel about wonderfully you sharing your story and your love today. I can feel it. I can just feel it and you keep doing it out there in the world and you are changing the world.

 

Johnny:

Well, thank you much Eileen, and thank you so much, Dr. Alicia. You guys are awesome. You guys keep serving and helping others and I’ll try to do the same and that it’s just a great and an honor to be here with you and sharing some of these stories. Thanks for your questions. Thanks for all the good work you do.

 

Eileen:

Thank you.

 

Alicia:

Thank you, Jonny.

 

Eileen:

Thank you for joining us on the Soul of a Leader podcast. We are igniting a new way of leading with your soul and interviewing ordinary people with extraordinary impact. Thank you for listening to the stories of our leaders who will help and guide you on your leadership journey. For more information on our podcast, please visit our website at http://www.soulofaleader.com. Thank you for listening. [silence 00:24:41].

 

Johnny:

Thanks, everybody.