Eileen:
Hello, and welcome to Soul of a leader podcast, where we ignite soulful conversations with leaders. On today’s episode, Dr. Alicia and Dr. Eileen sit with the Maryum Ali to discuss leadership with a purpose.

Alicia:
Welcome to Soul of a leader podcast. On tonight’s episode, we have Maryum May May, as they call her Ali. Her father, Muhammad Ali asked her when she was a little child, what is your purpose? She replied, I want to help people. Maryum’s efforts to do just that has manifested in a myriad of ways throughout her life. And the 1990s. She tried to inspire youth by being a role model within the music industry, but the prevalence of female exploitation and other negative aspects within entertainment shifted her plans toward inspiring young people in a more direct way. Welcome to Soul of a leader May May Ali.

Eileen:
Welcome.

Alicia:
We are so excited. Now I did even put a dent into your bio. Anything else you would like to add as we continue on this great conversation?

Maryum:
Of course. Most of my life, my profession for 15 years has been as a social worker for juvenile delinquency prevention, gang prevention, and youth development programming. So I’ve done that for a long time, doing direct practice as a case manager, as a director of programs, and as a regional manager for the Los Angeles mayor’s office in the gang department. So, that’s been a great fulfilling career that I’ve had. And for the past few years, I’ve been a public speaker speaking for nonprofit organizations, for their conferences and fundraisers who serve at risk populations.

Eileen:
Well, thank you so much for sharing that. We… I know there’s so much more because I read so much more about you.

Alicia:
Yes.

Eileen:
And I can’t wait to talk about all the different, wonderful things you did to help serve people in today and in the past. And when you were younger, you did say you wanted to help serve people and help people. And that vision has come to fruition. Is there some things that you can share with us about leadership and your leadership style that help you manifest that vision when you were so young and it’s happening, you’re doing it right now?

Maryum:
You know, some people find what they love at a young age and some people go ages and may not find what they love until they’re 25. Fortunately, I just had that kind of thing inside of me. I don’t know if it’s because I was the eldest child and I was very loving and doting and protective of my siblings. That could have been it. But my father, he always wanted to instill in us because he found what he loved at the age of 12. And he could always ask us a question repeatedly, what’s your purpose? What is your purpose? And I think that was really important because he asked… he would ask us that, when I was in elementary school all the way to middle school, to high school. And he would say, the moon has a purpose. The sun has a purpose with [crosstalk 00:03:26] Maryum. And he went deeper beyond career.

Maryum:
So, instead of me just saying doctor or, what do you want to do in your life? What’s in your body you do? And I would say, I want to help people. And I used to add being a doctor, but in my teens I realized I hated blood. So, it was social work. And I had a cousin who unfortunately was shot in gang violence in Chicago, in the nineties. He wasn’t in a gang. But his friend was kind of going over into that area. And they went to a party together and he was killed right around the corner from his house. And I was actually in college with the social work degree. And there’s so many things you can do with that degree-

Alicia:
Absolutely.

Maryum:
In hospice, during college. And I really wanted to… My sights were set on youth. Because young people, so many of them don’t feel valued and they don’t see the opportunity because of the environment they’re in. It’s just like in prison environment that they feel they’re in and they to try to help them explore and know that they’re just one step away from being able to live somewhere else when they’re older or being able to get a city or vocation, they just don’t see that because of the darkness in their community.

Maryum:
So, that’s where I wanted to go. And when you mentioned in an earlier in my bio, it was through music. I was a rap artists in my early twenties. I love music. Yeah. I mean, I love poetry. I still write short poems. And… But I saw that that industry would never propel and push a positive female artist talking about family. And it’s just that, that genre just didn’t go in that direction. And I knew it wouldn’t. I could tell. So I said, how am I going to help people if it’s not going to be in music? So my father going back to what he would always say, what is your purpose? So, I say I can’t achieve that purpose through rap. Because this is not what they’re pushing. But the purpose stayed the same. The career choice changed. So, that’s where I’m at right now.

Alicia:
Yeah. And so what I like about, and I might stick on that, what’s your purpose. And that’s so interesting that your dad would do that at such a young age. And I think if parents could hear this, those who will listen to the episode, you’re never too young to ask that question to a child. Because I like the analogy. The sun has a purpose, the moon has a purpose, the clouds have a purpose. And so, when you heard that, probably over and over as you were growing up, and your dad was asking that to your other siblings, how did you begin to start defining that? Did you write it down? Did you spend time meditating and thinking about… and searching? Because oftentimes when we are asked that question, I think that the audience and the young people that we like to reach, because I used to work with a lot of youth too through Stedman. How do we teach them how to find that if they don’t know how?

Maryum:
So there are a couple of things when you say that this is what I think. I was fortunately living in an environment where a purpose wasn’t forced on me.

Eileen:
Oh yeah, that’s good.

Maryum:
You need to be a doctor. You need to go to Ivy league. You need to… They push their kids in this direction. I have so many friends who went to law school, passed the bar and they’re not lawyers. So all of those… all of those loans. Yeah, they could use their law degree, but they feel they wasted time because they’re producers or they’re teachers or they’re doing something else. So I would say, and the beautiful thing my dad did and what his parents did to him, observe your children and what makes them happy and what… where their talent is. Because I think everyone has a special gift, but you have to [inaudible 00:07:24] for it like diamonds. And you have to pay attention to what they really like. And then once you see that let them… give them the tools. Even if it’s the information, even if you’re… You don’t have to be rich. Most of our greatest people came from nothing. They were abused and molested and… Look at Oprah Winfrey’s story, right?

Alicia:
Yes.

Maryum:
What is it that you can give them, the information where they can connect to it and see that opportunity and how to use their capabilities to get to the vision they want. Because again, if you can tap into what they already love and provide them with that information, it’ll make it easier for them to not be distracted by anything dark in their community or neighborhood, because they’re attached to something. Where they can say this is my way out. This is my goal. And at the same time I like doing it. Right? So yeah. I mean, you have to give them what they like, not what you want for them.

Eileen:
Yeah. And discovering that can take… If you don’t have a parent or I wouldn’t say just a parent, but an adult influence to help guide you there, sometimes you can float. Right? And that’s where you can get in trouble. And each soul and each person has a purpose and a value in this life. We do take up space for a reason because we’re here, because we’re connected. So, how do you, in your work help, if they may not be at home, but it may be a community, it may be an aunt, it might be an uncle, to help and guide? Are there tools that you used for making sure people don’t float?

Maryum:
Yeah. I’ll go to the program we had, which serves as a great example. The program that we had, we serve youth who were on that break of gang joining. They were tested to be in high risk, whether they had gang… generational gang activity in the family, or is just the environment, peer pressure towards that, foster youth, maybe impulse issues and issues of that nature. In any case, they tested high in joining a gang. And we did it in that middle school… those middle school years where that’s where most decide to be in that area. They may get prepped in elementary, but middle school is the time they make that decision, right? So, the kind of program we had to deter and to deal with that… There are a number of things that have to happen.

Maryum:
One’s they have to have the skills. They have to have certain type of skills. And we did cognitive behavioral type activities. We exposed them to opportunities and different careers that they can shoot for and gave them that information. And just a myriad of skills, anger. Just one thing about anger, anger leads to so much negative… Getting kicked out of school, getting arrested. It’s just… It’s a road to nowhere, that anger. So, if they can’t control the anger, how are they going to focus on what they want to do? So, it’s all these things you’re trying to do to help them understand the many aspects of life that they have to overcome and understand, and hardships. How to deal with hardships? What kind of thoughts do you have about yourself? Sometimes they just have false thoughts about who they are. So, it’s a big task in undertaking, but you have to really build skills.

Maryum:
You have to [inaudible 00:11:05]. So you have to provide young people with the tools and the skills and do some research. With the internet, we have so much research out there on how to help young people at all ages, but you have to kind of do the research. I hate to sound like a fool. But Google these things and what books can assist? How are you rewarding or punishing or providing incentives? So you have…. It’s work. You know what I’m saying? It’s work to get a young person to say, I have a future, but what do I need to do to connect with that future? And more importantly, the biggest thing is talk to them.

Alicia:
Wow, good point.

Maryum:
Do not do this without them. You might be… Parents get online and they Google everything. And it’s like, did you talk to them first? Right? And oftentimes a child’s world is so unimportant. The friends, what they like, what they’re doing. If they’re going to listen to you, especially in that period of adolescence, you have to be connected to them. And what’s important to them is important to you and they’re going to notice that. They have that friendship. And if you can’t do it, find a mentor, find someone. You know, it’s funny I had a parent say, well, do you have kids? And I said, no. How are you telling me? And I said okay, you got a point. I said, I’m the oldest of 11. I said, but two, I have youth that I’ve worked with who have achieved this. And I have parents I’ve worked with who don’t even need the program anymore. And then they may yell and shout at me. And then I may not see them for a year.

Maryum:
And then they come back. And they say, I need to put Jimmy in this program. He just got kicked out of three schools. I’m ready to listen. I listen to them because the beauty of being I think a great leader is being able to get from a person to identify what they need and what they want to do to get it. Not you tell them. Because if you tell them, that’s your standard on them. You put it on them. What do you think you need to do? And you can make suggestions, but the end result and the problem solve… the problem. Excuse me. The end result of that conversation when you’re working with people and trying to assist is they have to identify what they want and what they need to do to get it. And then to verbalize that and identify that, they’re on a path now that they identified, not you.

Eileen:
And Maryum. It’s so hard sometimes when you ask people, what do you want to do? And they just like, I don’t know.

Maryum:
And you know what you got to do now? You know what that is? That happens all the time. They’re not going to know. That’s not easy. You know why? They haven’t been exposed.

Alicia:
Exposure. Yes.

Maryum:
They haven’t been exposed to things. But they also may have a self-defeating, low self-esteem barrier for them to even see it. So, you got to work on that first, right? So you got to work on that. So that’s why I tell people, if you know there’s a child or even a person that’s dealing with the trauma. Look, you can be 50 years old and have a block in your life that you didn’t even resolve with your mama. And you cannot get past it because you didn’t resolve it. You have to know where someone is at. Right? And if you have to study how to do that, study how to do that. But if they don’t know, it could just be a lack of self-esteem.

Maryum:
And really behind that ‘don’t know’ is I’m not worthy. I’m not going to be good at anything. But where did they get that from? You have to figure that out as a parent, right? Why don’t you think you know? Why don’t… So it’s unraveling their layers and layers to people and you have to be attentive to enough to know… And like my dad, he would give me my purpose or say something and maybe, I didn’t know the answer all the time, but it’s the discussion and the list [inaudible 00:14:59] that out. It’s not going to happen in one day when you want it to happen. You have to meet somebody where they’re at. Oh, well, if you don’t know, let’s take a day out of the week to look at some things that you like.

Maryum:
Or, you know what, I notice you’re really good at drawing your video games. Do you want to create a video game? Sometimes you have to… That’s why I say when you know your child, or even a friend… I remember one time, my friend, we were roommates and she was getting her business degree and I saw she was so good. I knew she wanted to be in front of the camera, but the acting thing wasn’t a goal and the modeling just didn’t work out. And she was so proper almost like she had been to journalism school and she’d never gone. And she’s like, you know what, I love the business, but I’m just not fulfilled with just business. And I said, I won’t say her name. I said, do you notice when we play around with my video camera, how good you are with the microphone.

Maryum:
And she’ll just pretend you’re doing a news report. And I’m like, you have no experience but you sound just like a news anchor. Do you know she went on to be a news anchor in New York.

Eileen:
Oh my God.

Alicia:
Wow.

Maryum:
She wasn’t even… She got her master’s in business and we were roommates and I just noticed how good she was. And I just said, you’re so good at that. And that’s all it took. And she [inaudible 00:16:14] in DC. She was in a few cities doing journalism and saying, Oh my God I don’t make any money. I’m struggling. I’m famous, but I’m struggling. But she [inaudible 00:16:24] on Fox, not the Fox news, but Fox TV. And she did all these great reports. And then she got kind of bored with that after many, many years of doing that and perfecting it. And she got into interior design and now she’s a great interior designer.

Maryum:
She’s been featured in the Oprah magazine. But she always went with what she was good at and what you loved. So you have to look at that even like I said, leaders… We all… A lot of people think of leaders. It’s a paradigm… a common paradigm is you have to be a CEO or a supervisor, a politician. And they are leaders. Yes. But have you ever heard of that CEO who’s a great leader work, but he’s a horrible father.

 

Eileen:
Yes.

Maryum:
Leaders are… every day… everyday life. Learn what those characteristics are. You don’t just have to be. It’s not about someone who has a high label or status.

Alicia:
That’s right.

Maryum:
Leaders in our personal space. Right? And if you can be that great leader and an example for people in your personal space, imagine how great you’re going to be when you lead in a formal setting. Actual real leader, because you’re helping people and helping to guide and assist and support and love people in your personal space. Your friends and your family, so.

Alicia:
Yeah. And one of the things I like that you said about oftentimes not only just the youth that you dealing with, people, they have these false impressions about who they really are because of what they believe in or what they think they are. And the person sounds like, well, that’s not who you really are. So I’ll go to the question. How do you challenge others to be their best? And I know if your father probably, if he told you… asked you what your purpose was, he probably challenged you to be your best. And so how do you challenge others to be your best? And maybe give a nugget of how your father challenged you to be your best?

Maryum:
My grandparents raised me in suburbs of Chicago, most of my formative years. So I’ll give an example. They were there for the basketball practice and the… all kinds of things. So I’m going to put that on my grandparents because they were there for those moments more, a little bit more. In order for people to know that they can be good at something, to do their best, you have to reward them when they do well. Oftentimes we punish and we identify what they do wrong. Most… A lot of parents do that it’s more-

Alicia:
You’re correct.

Maryum:
Right. So when they do something well, or if they even progressive increments, that should be rewarded. Because your esteem is going to happen when you do something right. And it’s going to grow when you know you’re able to grow and get better and better and better. Right? So you have to acknowledge those moments because that self-esteem and wanting to be the best has to be inspired by something. You have to be… So when you’re younger, you have to create that and you don’t have to be rich to do that.

Maryum:
They can be, you know what, you got a A on that test. You went from an A to a C. We’re going to go get some pizza and go to the beach. That’s a $5 day, right?

Alicia:
Yes.

Maryum:
A $5 day. So reward and acknowledge those moments. And then it will make it easier for them to say, I want to do my best again and again, and again, and again. So that’s one practice. And then another thing it’s expose them to stories of people that they can read about, or even films of people who overcome major challenges that can inspire them.

Maryum:
I cannot tell you how many people have walked up to me and said, your dad inspired me to do this, to do that, to do this, to be that. He didn’t even know him. They just watched him, right? Pose your children to those people, right? There are autobiographies that are too long for them to read the book, get the movie about him. You’ve got to order it online, get the movie. So you have to surround young people and just people in general with what success and what being the best looks like. Or even achieving that. Even don’t even say the best. I don’t like that. What is their personal best? [crosstalk 00:20:45].

Alicia:
Good point.

Maryum:
So you got to watch words, because they think they’re not the best… I just had someone call me up. Dear family friend, who’s kind of money focused. They’re a good person, but they never have someone who they judge success with how much money you make. And I’ve never [crosstalk 00:21:05]. I’m just not… We don’t make a lot of money. Right? So, he made a statement. I hope you find what you want to do and do bigger things. Somebody said, and I told him years ago, not to say that. And I just had to stop him. I said, look, I said, you are… I said, that’s a little offensive. I said, because I’m a 52 year old woman with 20 years of experience in my field and helped a lot of people. And you’re judging me based on how much money you think I should be making.

Alicia:
Right. Basically what he did-

Maryum:
tomorrow, I got a successful person, because I-

Alicia:
Absolutely.

Maryum:
…spiritually. That’s my success. I’m a very spiritual person. I’m a Muslim. I follow my religion and I’m here to worship God. Be on his path in him, God, to be pleased with me. So when I get to the eternal life where we’re not going to die, I’m set up. I don’t have to have the mansion here. It’d be nice, but it’s not necessary.

Alicia:
That’s not true.

Maryum:
I want the mansion when we live forever and that’s just who I am. Right? So I said, out of all the people you may know, I’m probably the happiest, most successful person, spiritually with some of your friends. So, I mean, you can be looking all great. Looking great. Michael Jackson, Whitney Houston, they died of drug overdoses. You know, something was wrong. God bless them. They were talented people. But they had all the money in the world.

Alicia:
They had everything.

Maryum:
They weren’t happy. Something block-

Alicia:
Was a broken. Yeah.

Maryum:
…in their spirit. They had to numb themselves and they’re beautiful people. And so rich, wealth, and status is not necessarily what success is.

Alicia:
There you go. Absolutely. It’s not.

Maryum:
…make it to 55 years old. Maybe Prince was 55. They needed… And we knew a lot of people like that. So, it’s not about… That’s not what it’s about, your status. It really isn’t. Who are you spiritually? What is… Who is your soul? What kind of person are you?

Eileen:
And that’s… When you said personal best, there’s a philosophy that some people I’ve talked to have said, how do I compare myself to where I was last year? Right? And hopefully I’ve done better, I’ve grown, and I’ve given back in the world to somebody. And as you said, as we go to the other side, all we want most people who are thinking like you is just someone to say, well done. That’s it. Well done. Your life was well done. It was well. And I agree with you. So, with that as we talk about this, what do you think your core values are? We have this values deck that we use with people as we coach them and help them figure out what their life purpose is. And it’s a deck with some cards with words on them. But what is the drivers? If you had some words to share with us of your values?

Maryum:
Well, first and foremost, I’m big on high ethics and morals. Like I said, I’m a Muslim. I do follow my faith. And you don’t have to be religious to understand universal good and evil. But for me, that’s connected to something. So I’m not perfect, but I’m always trying to learn life. Learning is never ending. Spiritual growth, physical, mental, emotional. We don’t own it. We have to try to maintain it. We can’t own that. You can’t say you are always on top of things. Hardships are going to happen. They’re temporary, but they’re a fact of life and it’s not about always being happy all the time. Happy is temporary. It’s about inner peace. So that’s important to me. The process… Being able to process all of my experiences to maintain that inner peace is a core value. So as we move through life, whether you disagree or not with Donald Trump, whether you don’t like the racial tensions in America, whether you broke from the pandemic, whatever it is, how do you process that experience to have some kind of inner peace?

Maryum:
And there are things that I do to do that from my spiritual path, right? And that’s a whole other thing. But there are strategies and tools that I use to maintain that inner peace. And having empathy for others not… We’re in a society of labels and stereotypes. We just are. And understanding the individual and having empathy. I have empathy for a Trump supporter. I don’t like Donald Trump and I like what he stands for, but I do have an empathy for why they may feel that way. Even if it’s from wanting to be superior. Even if it’s a white supremacy. Why do they feel they need to be that way? Understanding that. I may not agree with it, but I’m not going to go back and forth and disrespect their personal Facebook. That’s just not my way.

Alicia:
Absolutely.

Maryum:
I can disagree with that, but I’m not going to get into this dark downward spiral of arguing. Look, to you be your way to me be mine. Good luck with that. So, understanding and having empathy for groups and wanting to authentically see people grow. There’s a lot of envy and jealousy in trying to one up somebody. And I’ve been envious in my life of people. I ain’t going to lie. We all have. But, what’s meant for me is for me. And what’s not meant for me is not meant for me, has nothing to do with another person. Because I believe if you really want other people to succeed. If it’s for good, they’re doing good, you want them to succeed or you want them to grow. You want them to get better. Some people believe it’s karma, but it’s hard to receive when you don’t want things… when you don’t want other things for people.

Maryum:
So… And I’ve had to grow to grow into that in certain ways. Because there’s some people, they hurt you or whatever, but I can say, I’m not that person’s friend, I’m not around that energy, but I will do wish the best for his life. And really mean that, not just say it. Right?

Alicia:
Absolutely.

Eileen:
Absolutely.

Maryum:
Those are some of my core values.

Alicia:
Yeah. One of the… And as we began to close, we’re going to ask you your words of wisdom. But what I heard is a very strong sense of spiritual connection. One point I want to bring out is you are absolutely correct. I don’t… I’m not rich by no means, but I know that if I’m doing something for the good of God who I love and serve, and it’s helping someone referring someone, giving back, that is the most rewarding thing. It’s so rewarding, but there’s a sense of peace in my heart. It’s that, that love you feel from that higher source. The know that I don’t have to have every… I don’t have to be so rich that I’m not happy. But if I know I’m able to help someone and see the smile on their face or accomplish something that they couldn’t say here, here you go. Here’s a connection. Now that makes me rich.

Eileen:
It’s a gift. That costs nothing.

Alicia:
Yes.

Eileen:
And it’s a gift for the world. It’s a gift for you. It’s a gift for them. And it’s just the connection. And that’s what we’re really supposed to be here for. Yeah, so.

Alicia:
Yeah. So, what would be some words of wisdom? And we got a lot of great nuggets from you, but I know you have some more in you. I can see it. So words of wisdom that you want to leave with the listeners today,

Maryum:
This world has more than enough negative nonproductive distractions. And I would say, look at your… Work on yourself. We are too busy spending our time or what other people are doing. If we all just work on ourselves. What do you value and where’s your time going? If that’s the first thing you have to do. Are you there watching TV every single day, then complaining that I have no opportunities? I had to make improvements just by three family members saying, you know you do this and we don’t like that. And I said, three people said that to me. Let me look into that. Work on yourself and study how to improve yourself. And the things that you really want is your responsibility to figure out how to get them in the correct way. And when you’re really working on yourself and you’re studying what you want, and you’re setting things up for yourself, you will start to see changes in your life. Because no one’s going to knock on your door and hand it over to you.

Maryum:
Yes. There are a lot of disparities out there, but are you voting for people who may want to level out the playing field a little bit? Or are you sitting at home complaining that Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, aren’t perfect. I’m not voting at all. Work on yourself. Where’s your money going? Is it going to your bad habits? Are you saving up to go take a class? Right? So that’s hard for people to do.

Alicia:
Absolutely.

Maryum:
You’re not doing that. The problem… Part of the problem is you. Because you’re not putting any effort in all the things you say you deserve in life. And if there’s a barrier or there’s something that’s angry, preventing you from getting to that point, seek out help for the trauma whether you do it online, if you don’t have the money, buy a book. But, start cleansing your spirit in your… What you think about yourself and how you’re dealing with your past experiences.

Maryum:
But this takes work. And the people who can… The people who overcome the most horrible hardships in their lives are doing this kind of work. So you can’t sit up and just talk about it all the time. Because I’ve been there too. And I have been in this space before where nothing was happening and nothing was going on. And I didn’t have any inner peace because I was not doing these things. And when I started doing these things and they connected it with a higher source on top of that, that’s up to you. But, there’s a reason you’re good to people. Why should we be good to people? What’s the real benefit of that in the scope of creation, right? That would be what I would say. Work on you. Work on you. We can’t change the past. How you react to what happens is how to react. And you got to watch the company you keep and what you’re in-taking visually, what you’re listening to, what you’re talking about. All that stuff creates your world.

Eileen:
Wow. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for those words of wisdom. And the last item is about energy. I mean, if you listen to negative energy and you are watching a negative energy. It’s going to go into your subconsciousness and it’s going to be there. You are absolutely right. Thank you so much.

Alicia:
You are on point on that one. I mean, it was deep. I was trying to take notes, but I could tell you… I mean, Oh my gosh. Thank you so much for those words of wisdom.

Maryum:
Most of it is just trying to help myself. And I wake up in the morning. I’m happy. And I’m just happy. And I’ve had been through a divorce and I saw how I handled that. And I’ve had family members on drugs and hijack the family. I’ve been through some stuff. And people do not know that, but how did I get out of that? I’ve been to dark spaces. I’ve been there and how did I get out of that? Where every morning I could feel happy no matter what’s going on. And I’m not getting too uptight, with what I’m seeing on the news.

Alicia:
Exactly. It’s… I mean, you hit it on it. It’s that cleansing of that spirit. It’s getting something bigger to you to help you get through life.

Maryum:
And know it’s a never ending journey. In Islam it’s called… They say jihad is war. But the real jihad, Arabic term jihad, people don’t know this is your internal struggles. Your good and evil sides. The internal struggle. Keeping yourself that keeping that war subdued inside yourself. And that’s an everyday thing. That’s an everyday thing.

Eileen:
And I can’t remember the quote, but it said all good comes from God. Someone said, but you have to intentionally focus on that. It’s very hard. It’s that struggle that you just said.

Alicia:
Yeah, she’s right. It’s that struggle.

Maryum:
You know what, I was feeling a little down the other day. You know what just lifts my spirit immediately? Swimming. Immediately. It just lifts [crosstalk 00:34:59] and you have to say, what are your go-tos that are good for you that lifts your spirits? [crosstalk 00:35:05] water. It’s like heaven. I would swim every week before the pandemic. The longer pools, laps and everything got closed. I have a pool in my building I live in. I never swim in it. I’m not saying I’m going to have to use it because… They keep it clean, but I just never use it. And I’m like, you know what? I got to get in the pool or just a cup of coffee. I love… I’m a coffee fanatic. Just have me a nice coffee. Make me a nice latte. Little simple things in life. My grandmother, we were best friends. She’s in there in Chicago. She’s in suburbs of Chicago. And I call her up. I mean, I know what gets me going, prayer. All the things I can go to when I’m feeling kind of. And I go to those things [inaudible 00:35:48]. Know what your go-tos are.

Alicia:
Yeah.

Eileen:
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