Alicia:

Hello, and welcome to Soul of a Leader podcast, where we ignite soulful conversations with leaders. Today’s episode, Dr. Alicia and Dr. Eileen sit with the managing principal and founder of Change Create Transform, Vikki Pryor to discuss servant leadership.

Eileen:

Hello, and welcome to Soul of a Leader. Today’s episode, we have Vikki Pryor, managing principal and founder of Change Create Transform. She’s a pioneer in corporate and social responsibilities. She’s been featured in the New York Times and Forbes. She also runs the CCT Foundation. It’s a leadership development training, which supports unique programs for multiple colleges and it raises over $400,000 a year in scholarships. Vikki holds a BA, a JD, and an MBA. Welcome, Vikki to Soul of a Leader. We’re so happy to have you here today.

Vikki:

Thank you. Thank you, Eileen. I’m delighted to be here.

Eileen:

Well with the one question I’d like to ask you right away. Tell me a little bit about how and why you founded Change Create Transform, and how did you come up with the name?

Vikki:

Well, it’s a long story that I’ll try to shorten, but the founding of it started with the fact that I believe he was given much, much is required. I’ve been fortunate to have a great education, great business experience. I found myself at a point in my career when you’ve been a CEO, I left my job as a CEO after 11 years. I learned there’s no place else you can go other than another CEO role. You really can’t look for those, people come looking for you. So, I said, “I want to use my talents now.” I’ve been blessed with a lot, and I want to share it.

Vikki:

So, I talk to a lot of people in my network about starting an organization rather than me going around on my own just working independently. First, I told people I was going to be working independently. As I talked, I realized that many people were out doing the same thing, but what we needed was a community to be most effective. So, out of that idea was born the notion of creating a platform of individuals who have what are called portfolio careers. They’ve done all kinds of things. They have experience and they have different ways. They want to connect and work with others. So, out of that group, a digital platform and a new way of working that now sound like what people are doing but actually 10 years ago it was a novel approach.

Vikki:

So, I talked to a great mentor of mine, a woman who changed the course of my life. I was a young lawyer at the time. I always call her on important business decisions. I said to her, “Thinking about starting this business, what should I name it?” She said, almost spontaneously, change, creates, transform. Isn’t that.

Eileen:

Oh my gosh.

Alicia:

Yes.

Vikki:

I said, “Isn’t that name too long? People aren’t going to stick with that. It just sounds longer.” She said, “Vikki, is what you stand for. It’s what you’ve always done. You’ve always been a person that has stood for change. You are creative and through all your work, you’ve been transformative every place you’ve been.” So, I trusted that because she’d been such a great guide to me that I stuck with the name. I took a lot of battering with the name in the early years. People were like, “Well, what is that? They were transposed words in different orders.” I said, “Oh boy, I picked the wrong name.” But of course, fast forward to where we are now in the middle of one of the greatest challenges in my life in this country, change transforms sounds like it’s on the money. The great news: I’ve been in business now for 10 years. So, that’s where it came from.

Eileen:

Well, thank you.

Vikki:

is Nancy Butler. She’s a Chicagoan and I met her actually and this is really about Soul of the Leader because I had reached a point of despair in my own career. I was in what I thought was a dead-end position. I tried desperately to get out and no one would hire me in anything. I was a lawyer at the time and I couldn’t get a single law firm in the Chicago area to hire me. So, I was in the MBA program at the University of Illinois at Chicago. Nancy was working there in the career center. True to form, I went there after hours when it was closed, you weren’t even supposed to be there. I go up and down the hall because I always try to find people that are there when things are closed. They’re wonderful people to work with. Of course, she was at her desk toiling away. She didn’t know me from Adam.

Vikki:

I said, “May I speak to you for a minute?” She was the only person there. She said, “Yes.” I said, “Here’s my resume.” I said, “I’m in the MBA part-time program. I work full time as a lawyer and I need to make a job change.” I said, “I’m willing to work somewhere for six months for free because I want to make a change. I can’t afford to, but I want to just demonstrate what I can do and I want someone to give me a chance.” Now, mind you, I was head of JD at this time. I had my CPA. I was admitted to practice in Illinois and New York.

Vikki:

I had been a practicing lawyer before the US Tax Court for eight years, but I didn’t see myself as having that much to offer, because of the way society responded to me at the time. So, I was really begging for an opportunity to use my talents. She said to me, with conviction, just glazing over my resume. She didn’t know any of that. She said, “You don’t have to do that. You’re worth something.” She took me under her wing sight unseen, helped me do a job campaign.

 

Vikki:

It’s a side story. I had interviews with top fortune 100 CEOs themselves, something I never dreamed possible. That was such an enormous inflection point in my career. So, that’s why I believe in the soul of a leader. That’s why I believe we’re here on purpose. We never know why, we never know our path, but all I know is everything that we do and that happens to us, helps us develop into who we , and why we’re here and finding that purpose.

Alicia:

Amazing story.

Eileen:

Absolutely.

Vikki:

I wanted to give Nancy the props because she has touched a lot. She’s retired now. She’s in her 80s. She has touched the lives of thousands of individuals who went through the halls of the University of Illinois, Chicago. She’s one of the unsung heroes that are all over our world that change the lives of people without ever being recognized for what they do.

Alicia:

Right.

Eileen:

Had such a belief in servant leadership. Wonderful.

Vikki:

Absolutely.

Eileen:

Nancy, go!

Alicia:

Yes, perfect. We call those ordinary people who have done extraordinary things or made an extraordinary impact on people’s lives. To hear your story and we’re glad you’re a Chicago native, now, what would you say your ability as you lead with your soul, how do you challenge others to be their best?

Vikki:

I would say that I actually don’t challenge others to be their best. I first believe in their best and highest. That’s hard. We can take with what’s going on in the country right now and I’m sort of the lone voice of a leader that we have right now who’s not very popular, who makes a lot of bad decisions, but I remind people here is a hurt individual. We have to try to see the best in that person and try to make the best of that. So, I would say trying to see the best in the person and I wanted to talk today about fairness and justice. Trying to get to the bottom of what’s just and not what’s fair, because I’d have to say about myself. If I got everything that was fair, I would not be anywhere near where I am. I’ve had more things happen because I’ve been treated in a way that was just and merciful and full of grace.

Vikki:

A pastor of mine has a wonderful story about this, a friend of mine. He has 15 brothers and sisters, and he talked about growing up and going shopping for shoes. We have that many children, you only buy what people need. If you don’t need shoes right now, we don’t go to the store and buy 16 pairs of shoes. So, he said as a kid he struggled with this. He said one day he got the courage to tell his mom and dad, it’s not fair. I’ve seen my brother, my … this one, that one, someone got a new coat, new shoes. It’s not fair. So, they said to him, “Son, life isn’t fair, but what we pray is for justice. We pray for mercy. We pray for support for what is right for the individual and not having a measuring stick that everything has to be equal, but we want it to be just, we want to bring compassion.”

Vikki:

So, that’s what I try to do is to one, see in the person, their highest and best good, to believe in them, to try to overcome my own biases or my own discrimination about the person, to work on myself. Because when I work on myself, I’m better able to develop others. I also try to see the beauty and the talent and intelligence over my career. I think it’s one of the reasons why I was given the great opportunity to be a senior executive in many companies. I’m a CEO if I believe in the basic genius of every human being.

Vikki:

It’s not a model that we have. We have a model that says some people are a lot smarter than others, and it’s a small group. Data does not support that. In fact, the IQ test except for the bottom 1% and the top 1%, everybody else in the middle, your score is statistically insignificant. The differences are statistically insignificant. We are all intelligent. So, I try to see and point out and develop and coach the intelligence in each person and the genius and to see the genius.

Vikki:

I’ll tell you another great story. I’m a woman of metaphor. People of African descent are people of metaphors because it’s embedded in most of the basic Southern African cultures, the use of metaphor and storytelling. This was the postmaster general of the city of Chicago who was an African American man. He tells the story about how he was humbled and understood how he should lead, how she should see the genius and the beauty in others. He was at a dinner and he was self-impressed. I’m the postmaster. So, he was sitting at this big dinner at the table and he wanted butter. So, he waved to the waitress and said, “I need more butter.” She waved, “I’ll be right with you.” She came out with water and she still didn’t have the butter. He said, “I asked for the butter.” Then, she went back and she came out with something else and she still didn’t have the butter. He signaled for her to come over. He said, “I’ve asked you for the butter several times and you haven’t brought it. Do you know who I am?”

Eileen:

Oh, wow.

Vikki:

She said, “No, I don’t.” He said, “Well, I’m the postmaster general, the city of Chicago.” She said, back to him, “Well, do you know who I am?” He said, “No.” She said, “I’m the person that distributes the butter.”

Eileen:

Oh my Gosh!

Vikki:

[inaudible 00:13:05] about humility. So, that really tells my story about seeing the genius that every person seeing what they have to give, seeing and understanding, and the pandemic has shown us, it has shown us the importance of people that perhaps who have been marginalized. Perhaps people should say, “Well, that job is only worth $9 an hour.” Not having any sense of how critical those roles have been.

Alicia:

Absolutely. They’ve been very important.

Vikki:

[crosstalk 00:13:34] and we need each other. So, I remind myself even when I fall into the same traps we all do, we need each other at times when I don’t want to feel that way. We all have moments when we say, “Well, I’m important. What about me? Forget about everybody else.” In our dark moments, in the moments when we’re by ourselves and we don’t have our personas on, that’s where the real work has been done. What’s happened with the protests and with the pandemic is that we’re now seeing the real work that has to be done at the individual level. It’s tragic what’s happening on both sides of the equation.

Vikki:

For the protesters, for all American people and for our police as well because I tell people, “The police in many instances are carrying out their training. This is what they have been trained to do and there’s something wrong with the training. There’s something wrong with the system that we don’t value human life the way that we should. So, there’s something for us to learn from all the people that have been hurt.” As we all know, for example, in slavery, of the slaveholder and the slave are both … It’s a tragedy for both. So, anytime we have imbalances, anytime we don’t have justice, anytime we don’t see the beauty and the genius in people, we have imbalances. So, that’s a [inaudible 00:15:05] to keep striving for, how do we level out these imbalances? How do we see the value that each person brings? That’s what I try to do.

Eileen:

Vikki, Dr. Alicia and I have talked a lot about how we’re all connected and there’s a God-light in us and how during this time of shelter in place and social unrest and all this change going on like a whirlwind, living in grace, as you said, and compassion for others. It’s really unique that you said the IQ, 1%, 1%, we’re all on the same. We are all connected with a God-light and who we are and should be aligned. Maybe it’s time that we start making these changes and realizing that, and moving with compassion, love, grace, and educating people. It’s kind of weird because it’s what a soulful leader is. Dr. Alicia, would you like to say something about that at all?

Alicia:

Listening to you, Vikki, I in agreement with now the COVID has allowed us to recognize people who I’ve always said to myself, working in NBC Towers is that I knew the security guards. I knew the cleaning staff by name because I was always there late, but they were always important. So, they were valuable. So, when I hear people say, essential workers, well, they were always essential. They were always important. We always need them. How about not getting your garbage picked up, whether it’s in your office or outside?

Vikki:

That’s right.

Alicia:

You all figure out how important they really were before COVID. So, I agree. We-

Vikki:

Alicia, can I say something in terms of strategies in that area?

Alicia:

Uh-hmm (affirmative).

Vikki:

We need to get back to a society where people have enough time and they have the structure to do many tasks for themselves. Not this idea that there’s a group of people that take the garbage out, like, can we all make our own beds? Can we all take our own garbage out? Can we restructure things so human beings have the time to take care of themselves? These are ways that we will see full employment for everyone. Until we reach full employment, we will not be unleashing the soul of a leader in each person because each person is meant to do something here on earth. If you’re still here and you’re still breathing, you have an assignment.

Alicia:

Absolutely.

Eileen:

You have a purpose. You’re correct. You have a purpose sign-

Vikki:

We need to change the infrastructure to unleash that, because we all know that when we unleash that in each human being, wow, it’s so much more than we can do as individuals, so much more what a group can do. It’s amazing.

Eileen:

Innately, every human wants to contribute.

Alicia:

Yes.

Vikki:

Yes.

Alicia:

Yes.

Eileen:

They want to wake up-

Vikki:

Take babies. Take-

Eileen:

Yep.

Vikki:

Take five-year-olds. Absolutely.

Eileen:

Every human wants to wake up in the morning, contribute and say, “How did I serve? How do I add value today or whatever?” Once we can do that, you’re totally correct.

Alicia:

Dr. Eileen here’s to the point of all of this, and this is why Vikki we call it SAS. It’s being a servant leader, an authentic leader, and a spiritual leader. That allows you when you say you look at that good, that intelligence in there, that brilliance in an individual, I agree. Everyone has something in them that has been given to them by God on an innate ability to be a genius or to be gifted or to be a talent. He has given everyone that, and that’s one thing about me when I say, well, I never envy jealous people because I’ve always believed that God has given us all something that allows us all to work together, a uniqueness to, a talent to it. That genius. So, you are absolutely correct to look at that in individuals and see what it is in them. When I see it, I challenge them to go deeper, to be the best at what I already know they have in them already. So, you’re definitely on point with what we believe as the soul of a leader.

Eileen:

So with that, we all have an opportunity to grow. All have an opportunity to be an authentic leader, spiritual leader, and servant leader. So, Vikki, you shared a couple of experiences and stories about yourself. Is there a time when you were able to mentor or coach someone and enlighten them with what your vision is or where you were going in life?

Vikki:

Well, I just think I’ve been fortunate all along throughout my life, every job that I have had or anything I get involved in, I bring that mindset to it. I never feel like I can do it without people. I never have the approach that I know more than others. So, everything that I’ve done and the successes that I’ve had is because of that. Thinking about ways to unlock people and unleash people, even telling people that. When I take on a new role, I say, “This is our organization. I’m merely one part of the team. I have a different role, but my role isn’t really more important than anyone else’s.” I tell them everyone here will come and lead. No one stays any place for eternity. So, we’re here on a journey together. So, I can’t take credit. I’m not one of these people that will tell you I have built things and I have had great successes, but I didn’t do it. My teams did it and I was a member of the team.

Vikki:

I’ll never point to someone … It’s funny because I’ve had people who work for me and this is a minority, who through the grapevine I’ve heard them said Vikki was successful because of me. So, my answer back to them is “Yes, I was successful because of you.” That’s sad because everybody that I’ve worked for, I always say I’m successful because of them. I don’t think it’s really about measuring these things or proving them. I think it’s living them. I think the only way we make progress is to live them and to encourage everyone around us, to live them, by living them ourselves and understanding that each person has a unique path and a unique experience and they’re acting the way they are because of their experience. I’ve worked with great teams of people who’ve accomplished amazing things, things that we were told we would never do.

Vikki:

Every team I’ve been on has always gone above and beyond anything, I would have ever expected. Just my foundation as an example that I started the work on 20 years ago, created the foundation of 501(c)(3) 10 years ago and it’s gone way beyond anything I could’ve ever imagined. We had one student scholarship, a small scholarship when we started. We now have nine colleges and universities, 105 scholars. Among those scholars, they all make a lifetime commitment, their lifetime committed to servant leadership, to using their skill and their talent, their profession in a positive way. They cross all kinds of disciplines. It’s nothing I could have done by myself. It’s nothing that I could have even designed before beyond my greatest imagination. That’s just one idea.

Vikki:

My son was in seventh grade and he gave out the first scholarship award. I knew it was going somewhere. He came in a little suit on, he got a standing ovation because he was in seventh grade and was able to stand up and read his little speech granting this award to a law student for the exceptional promise and exceptional. 

Vikki:

So, all we can do is put one foot in front of the next, the small things we do matter. Let go of the outcome. Don’t care about what’s going to come of what you do. Think more about just doing it, just committing yourself to authenticity and all the things that you mentioned.

Alicia:

So, you talk a great deal about the team and that is extremely important and valuable to have people work together as a team. What type of words of wisdom will you leave with our listeners when it comes to leading with your soul, being in a team, seeing the uniqueness and the greatness in individuals, what are the words of wisdom would you like to leave with our listeners today?

Vikki:

The word of wisdom I would say was just kept at it. It takes courage. It’s risk-taking to do it. You’re not always given the positive reinforcement for doing it, but follow your inner voice, follow your instincts, do what you think is right for you, march to your own drummer. We all march to a different drummer. It’s okay to march to your own drummer. I love to say we come into the world with nothing, we leave with nothing. Everything is just our experience in between. Where I am age-wise, now there’s … I can tell you there are people in my age group who are shocked. They’re just learning that. I’ve said that for years.

Vikki:

Use your resources. Surrender, surrender all. Surrender is a daily exercise. So, by the end of the day, if you’re living purposefully, you’re spent most days. You are spent and that’s good and that’s normal. One way to deal with that is to surrender and say, “God, this is bigger than me. I’m your faithful servant. Use me. I’m handing this over to you tonight so I can go to bed and I can sleep peacefully. I’m going to trust you to provide the resources, to provide the way to guide me, and I’m going to trust you for the outcome.” Letting go of the outcome. Nancy, I mentioned earlier, taught me that years and years ago. Incredibly important and it’s something you have to remind yourself. I would say write it down. Write these things down. It’s impossible to process it all. So, write things down to help guide yourself along the way.

Eileen:

Wow. What a wonderful closure and words of wisdom.

Alicia:

Yes.

Eileen:

We are so grateful you shared that. Your whole story and foundation and how you’ve overcome and then resilience and surrendering, we can’t thank you enough Vikki for sharing your story.

Alicia:

Absolutely.

Eileen:

You can see the heart in your story. Dr. Alicia and I always say stories are the connection between the head and the heart. We heard it today and we-

Vikki:

Well, I want to thank you, Eileen. I want to thank you, Alicia. But, more importantly, I do want to thank the millions and millions of people that came before me. It’s kind of trite to say, but everything we do, you see someone who’s been successful, where you see, well, Bill Gates, but all of his inventions and his ideas were on the backs of so many developments and technologies that came before that he wouldn’t have been able to do that without being on the shoulders of others. So, I want to thank God and thank all the many people. I could never give back what I’ve been given in my life, could not even begin to do it if I lived a thousand years, I couldn’t. So, thank the two of you for having the courage and the resilience as you say, Eileen, and all the compassion and the beauty and the genius to come up with Soul of a Leader. It’s going to go places you can’t even imagine.

Eileen:

Thank you for joining us on the Soul of a Leader podcast. We are igniting a new way of leading with your soul and interviewing ordinary people with extraordinary impact. Thank you for listening to the stories of our leaders who will help and guide you on your leadership journey. For more information on our podcast, please visit our website at http://www.soulofaleader.com. Thank you for listening.