Eileen:

Hello, and welcome to Soul of a Leader podcast, where we ignite soulful conversations with leaders. On today’s episode, Dr. Alicia and Dr. Eileen sit with the founder of the International African American Museum, Michael Boulware Moore, to discuss intentional leadership.

Alicia:

Welcome to Soul of a Leader podcast. In today’s episode, we have Michael Boulware Moore. He is a true son of South Carolina. He is the great, great-grandson of Robert Smalls, the Civil War hero who, as an enslaved man, commandeered the Confederate ship Planter to freedom in Charleston Harbor in 1862.

Alicia:

He has had a dynamic business career with leadership experience in both Fortune 500 and Entrepreneur companies. You also may know Michael as being a pioneer and leading a specialty food company called Glory Foods Inc. Welcome to the show, Michael.

Michael Boulware Moore:

Thank you.

Alicia:

We are so pleased and excited to have you on the Soul of a Leader.

Michael Boulware Moore:

Thank you. It’s an honor to be here and I’m looking forward to the conversation.

Eileen:

Thank you so much for taking your time, and we’re very grateful to have you here today. One of the first questions we like to share is we want to share with you what leading with the soul is to us. Leading with your soul is being a leader with three different styles. One is authentic, one is spiritual, and one is a servant. And it’s kind of a mixture of all three that we define as leading with your soul.

Eileen:

And if you could share with us a time that you maybe have used all three or maybe one was more prominent than others, in either your work or personal life, or even in your volunteer life, as you led the International African American Museum? Any kind of story you would like to share on how  you used those leadership styles?

Michael Boulware Moore:

Well, thank you for the question. It’s an honor to be here with you. I have, just by way of a little bit of context, I have found myself in leadership positions really throughout most of my life, I’ve gravitated to leadership positions. I remember I grew up in the Northeast, in a suburb of Boston, a very racially un-diverse kind of a community, but yet was able to be elected president of the student body and elected most likely to succeed and all of these kinds of things. And throughout the major stages of my life, I’ve just found myself in positions of leadership.

 

Michael Boulware Moore:

I’ve thought about those experiences and I’ve thought about what has worked, and in some instances what has not worked so well. And at my age now where I’ve been out in the world for a while, I just find that there are some principles that work best. I’ve been in situations, I’ve worked with people where sometimes fear is like their primary tool. And in the short-term, maybe that can … like a spur on a horse, maybe that can lurch people forward, but that just doesn’t work, and I’m glad that my personality has never been like that.

Michael Boulware Moore:

But I’ve always believed that leadership is more about empowering the people around you, empowering your team, your organization. The performance of any kind of a team, a company, an athletic team, anything, is only just a product of the sort of productivity of each of the individuals. And so, as a leader, I’ve always thought that it’s my responsibility to create a broad context where people can perform. And by context I mean emotionally, intellectually, certainly from a resource standpoint, you’ve got to empower people.

Michael Boulware Moore:

I remember, I think back, one of my most challenging leadership times, I was president of a software company. I’m not a software person. I’m a marketing person. But I found myself with this really huge project. This was back in the ’90s. And it was the first time I led a team where I couldn’t actually roll up my sleeves and do it myself and fix it myself, so I had to trust people around me and move them forward in ways that really were just very new and different. In the past, if I’m working on a marketing campaign or working on developing an ad or something, I could just say, “Hey, well, why don’t we do it this way?” Or, “Why don’t we do it that way?”

Michael Boulware Moore:

And so, there were a couple of things that I found that worked. First of all, the challenge, we were tasked with creating this enormous platform piece of software, and it was probably going to take us six to nine months to get this done, and it was just a daunting task emotionally. It was just too much.

Michael Boulware Moore:

And so I found that I had to chunk up all of that work. I had to say, “Okay, let’s not worry about what’s going to happen in month three, four, five, six. Let’s chunk everything up into what we’ve got to do this month, and then let’s break that down even further into what we have to do this week. And then, let’s really understand, what do we have to do tomorrow?” And so, from a psychological standpoint, it just helped to just make it a more realistic challenge.

Alicia:

Approach, yeah.

Michael Boulware Moore:

Approach, yeah. And so that was, I think, helpful. And then again, I mean, I see a huge part of leadership as being this notion of empowering others, of knocking down obstacles that may exist in front of them, of going out and finding the resources to help them do what they need to do. And there’ve been a number of instances where I’ve needed to do that. And I think I have tried to be authentic to how I like to be led and managed.

Alicia:

Interesting.

Michael Boulware Moore:

And those two are two different things.

Alicia:

Yes.

Eileen:

Yes, tell us more.

Alicia:

Yeah. Very two different things.

Michael Boulware Moore:

Yeah. And a good leader has to be able to do both.

Alicia:

Absolutely.

Michael Boulware Moore:

A good leader needs to be able to inspire, need to be able to paint a picture of a vision of tomorrow that is better than today.

Alicia:

Absolutely.

Michael Boulware Moore:

Needs to be able to identify a point on the horizon that is the most appropriate point to be sailing toward, and then figure out how to get there. And so, I think leadership or the part about leadership that is inspirational is about painting this picture and getting people to buy into that vision. And I think the only way you can really do that effectively is by being authentic. People will sniff out if you’re not and if you are trying to manipulate them in some way. That comes out very, very easily.

Michael Boulware Moore:

But management, on the other hand, is … There’s a piece of leadership that is we’ve got to hold each other accountable. As leaders, somebody or a board or someone is holding us accountable, and then we’ve got to hold our teams accountable. And again, I think if you are a person who appreciates a spiritual approach, a holistic approach, an approach that focuses on acknowledging the humanity of every person without regard to what their capabilities are, we’re all gifted in some ways or another. And I think, anyway, it’s the leader’s responsibility to figure out … Maybe sometimes the person doesn’t even know the ways that they can best be-

Alicia:

I agree.

Michael Boulware Moore:

[crosstalk 00:08:57]. And so, I don’t know. I’m saying a whole lot. But I think leadership, sometimes leadership where it is inappropriately used, is about the leader. It’s about the person. And I don’t want to get political, but there are certain very well-known people in our world now who demonstrate that it would seem to me. But I think real leadership is about … As I said, it’s about empowering, it’s about inspiring, it’s about creating economic and emotional and intellectual safety and vision and guiding everything forward.

Alicia:

So one of the things I kind of hear you saying about being authentic and that spiritual aspect, how do you feel about being intentional about being a servant leader? Because at some point, you had to be … In order to be authentic, you had to be intentional about your authenticity. Now in order to be a good leader, you had to be intentional about how you’re going to lead. And so you talked about a lot, it’s that trust. In order to be intentional about leading, you have to be intentional about, “I have to trust a team that … I know nothing about this culture, this environment.” So what is your take on being intentional about being a servant leader?

Michael Boulware Moore:

Well, I think probably to do anything really well, you’ve got to be intentional about it. I mean, sure, sometimes luck happens and people … But I think for most of us, you’ve got to be intentional. For me, I was thrust into positions of corporate leadership at a relatively young age, and even at an age where I had people who were older than me, more senior from an age standpoint, who were reporting to me.

Michael Boulware Moore:

And so, for me, I had to just come to grips, in a very intentional way, with this notion of how I could lead as a young person, how I could lead other people. And there was intentionality that had to overcome maybe a little insecurity on my part.

Alicia:

Absolutely.

Eileen:

And with that, when you’re talking about intentional leadership, servant leadership and authentic leadership, what I’m hearing, and maybe you can comment on this, getting thrust into that role at a young age with a lot of pressure on you, how did you check yourself? Because being an authentic leader is being very self-aware and self-disciplined, but also staying calm, right, and making sure that transparency’s there but also making sure you’re being honest and growing as a leader. So I’ll stop there and let you answer that.

Michael Boulware Moore:

Yeah, I think, for me, I’ve always been a very introspective person in pretty much everything I do. I think about what I’m doing and about how I’m doing it and what I could be doing better. As a leader, when I was young, I had to understand intellectually what it was that I needed to do, how I needed to lead, and then I needed to … And again, using the word “intentional”, in a very intentional way, connect with who I am as a human being, and then align that.

Michael Boulware Moore:

There are these visions of leadership sometimes where people think that to be an effective leader you’ve got to be a certain way. You’ve got to be bombastic. You’ve got to come in and bang on the desk and you’ve got to yell and scream and you’ve got to throw things.

Alicia:

All wrong.

Michael Boulware Moore:

Yeah, yeah. And that’s not who I am and that’s not … So even if I had tried to do that, I couldn’t have pulled that off because, ultimately, that’s not who I am. But just being in touch with who I am. I grew up, my mother, her Ph.D. was in psychology. My dad’s Ph.D. was in philosophy. And so we grew up with all of these-

Alicia:

Interesting, yes.

Michael Boulware Moore:

… conversations about-

Alicia:

Oh wow.

Michael Boulware Moore:

… people and how to think and ways of organizing things. And so, I just used a lot of that and used just my sense of, again, of humanity, to do the things that I learned, intellectually learned, and learned through experience working for leaders, to develop my style.

Alicia:

I really think you had some great tools that you learned from your parents.

Michael Boulware Moore:

Yeah. No, there’s no question.

Alicia:

Yes. I mean, honestly, that psychological part to it, understanding people. That, to me, is the number one thing in being in a leadership role. And when I’m in a leadership role, I always say, I learn a lot about myself, and I also learn a lot about the people that I’m leading. And so I heard you say a lot of that in some of your roles. What would you say has been the biggest challenge for you in dealing with leading a team on a project? What’s been the biggest challenge as a leader?

Michael Boulware Moore:

For me, that’s like saying … I have four sons, which is my favorite son? I think each of the challenges has been, and I’ve had a number of challenges, has been really interesting. When I was really early in my career, I had an opportunity to leave Coca-Cola, where I was in very much of a big company, big corporate role, go to a more entrepreneurial company but as the head of marketing at a really relatively young age. And so that, there were all sorts of challenges inherent in that.

Michael Boulware Moore:

I created a consultant company and went and ran this technology company that I was talking about before. We had to create this big [inaudible 00:15:13]. There were enormous challenges with that. I mean, one of the challenges, I’ll tell just a quick little story, this was in Seattle and the late, the late ’90s, during that first real big internet bubble. And as most people know, the Pacific Northwest, the West Coast, is prone to earthquakes. And there was this big earthquake, and I’m the leader. I’m the president of the company, but I grew up in Boston. I’d never been in an earthquake before. Everybody’s looking to me, “What do we do? What do I do?”

Alicia:

What to do?

Michael Boulware Moore:

But yet I had to quickly get a grip on the situation. So that wasn’t a technical leadership. I mean, that was sort of an emotional kind of leadership. People were looking at me. I recognized that I needed to quickly figure out what we needed to do. And even as we walked down the stairs, this big rumble occurred and the hallway, the wall in the hallway kind of broke. I mean, it was just very dramatic.

Alicia:

Oh wow.

Michael Boulware Moore:

Very dramatic kind of a scene. So that was leadership. I think, not to make this too long of an answer, I had an opportunity to go and run Glory Foods. And it started as a family company. The founder had passed by the time that I got involved. I was originally hired as a consultant and then developed a really wonderful relationship with the board and with the leadership there and then they hired me to package the company and sell it. That was an interesting challenge, to take-

Alicia:

Interesting.

Michael Boulware Moore:

… a relatively regional brand company and all of a sudden to sort of fatten it up to create a national distribution footprint, to build the brand in ways to maximize the value. That was an interesting challenge.

Michael Boulware Moore:

And then I will tell you a completely different challenge, working to raise the money and to build the infrastructure at the International African American Museum, we had an opportunity … I’ll spend just a second and put some context on that. Charleston, South Carolina, where I am now, was really the capital of slavery. It was the place where almost half of all the enslaved Africans who came to the United States throughout the course of the entire transatlantic slave trade, where they arrived, where they were brought.

Michael Boulware Moore:

And we had space on the very wharf where they landed and we were able to secure that space and begin to build this museum. We had an enormous amount of money to raise. We raised $125 million dollars  and hired a world-class senior staff and managed and began a world-class team of architects and museum exhibition designers and the like. And so it was an enormous challenge to do all that. But that was really a labor of love. It was very hard work, but I felt very connected to the opportunity, to the history, frankly to my ancestors who had arrived on that spot, and I felt … In many ways, and I don’t mean this as a disrespect to any of the people here, but I felt like I was really reporting to and being led by the ancestors on this project.

Alicia:

Oh wow.

Michael Boulware Moore:

So it was a very spiritual kind of assignment in that sense, and it was one that was great. So each of those had different aspects, different challenges, and I appreciate them all. And look, maybe my biggest challenge is in front of me. Who knows?

Eileen:

Yeah. Well, thank you so much for those stories. And Alicia and I, when we coach people, we use what’s called the values deck. And with that, I heard many different potential values that you may have used through all those stories. Could you share with us what some of your core values are as you lead through all of these programs? Because we really focus on that as we coach people and talk to people about leading with their soul.

Michael Boulware Moore:

Yeah. I think there are a number of different values. I mean, I think one of them is centered around just acknowledging the humanity and the unique sense of the humanity of each person who you’re involved with. Each person brings a unique set of skills and opportunities. And again, I think it’s the job of a leader, of a manager, certainly, to work with each person on an individual basis and work with them to figure out the most productive way forward.

Michael Boulware Moore:

I think integrity is really important from a variety of different standpoints. I think if you … Once a strategy and a goal, an objective, has been developed, I think integrity and allegiance to that goal, that objective, is paramount. A lot of times, particularly smaller companies, and sometimes not so small companies, but you can figure out generally where you’re going. But just with all the different things that happen in life and from a competitive standpoint or from a strategic or resource standpoint, sometimes you’ve got to evolve. But ultimately, if your vision is based on values, it’s based upon a collaborative effort to accomplish a mission, certainly, then you need to have integrity with that.

Michael Boulware Moore:

I think communication is key at a very granular level.

Alicia:

Absolutely.

Michael Boulware Moore:

People take it for granted. I’m a people person. I enjoy working with people. I enjoy communicating with people. And at the same time, I understand that it’s a personal challenge, and sometimes I can get so dialed into the things that I’m working in that I might not look up from my desk to consider how others around me are doing and feeling and what support they may need. And so, I have to … back to the word “intentional”, I have to be intentional just about, again, connecting with them on a human basis, about listening, about communicating. I think there are a lot of lessons, a lot of things like that. But those are some that come to mind, top of my head.

Eileen:

Great, thank you.

Alicia:

It has been such an intense or very warm conversation with you, and I know we’re going to start to end, but I hear a lot of passion out of you. I hear a lot of love, integrity. What are some words of wisdom? Because, as we all know, we’re dealing with something in America that is absolutely frightening. Words really can’t explain it. And so, for your level of leadership, what type of wisdom would you leave for our listening audience? And primarily if it’s males that would potentially listen, what are some key wisdom words?

Michael Boulware Moore:

I think the first would be that as human beings, part of what I tell my sons a lot is I talk about our comfort zone. We all have a comfort zone. Obviously it’s that space where we’re comfortable, where we can operate smoothly and comfortably. But growth occurs, by definition, outside of that zone.

Michael Boulware Moore:

And so, I think there are so many aspects where this applies is that I think we just need to get comfortable being uncomfortable. And not because it’s good to be uncomfortable just on its face, but because that’s how we grow. If we’re talking about … Let’s say we’re still on the workplace but we’re talking about how to figure out how to maximize the productivity and the potential of each employee, and that you have a diverse group of employees, you’ve got to sometimes get out of your comfort zone to get in the space where other people are and understand who they are and what they bring in the way of reality and perspectives to the table.

 

Michael Boulware Moore:

I think fear, largely, is considering things outside of that comfort zone. And just because it’s outside of your comfort zone doesn’t mean that it’s bad. That’s how we grow. That’s how we get better and get more capable. And so that’s one thing that I would say. Get comfortable being uncomfortable. Not just for the sake of being in a painful or uncomfortable position but because that’s how we grow.

Michael Boulware Moore:

Another thing that I would just say is, be bold. Be audacious. There are so many situations where people just … Again, I think thinking back to this comfort zone or whatever, they just go with the flow, or if they make a change, there are two kinds of change. There is incremental change, where effectively you just put another coat of paint on something. And then there’s discontinuous change where you break the mold and you create something new.

Michael Boulware Moore:

And when we think about innovation, we think about Apple and Steve Jobs, we think about Elon Musk and the others, they had the audacity to think outside of the prescribed zones of comfort, of what was usual, and really innovated. And so I think, part of what I think particularly with young people is that we need to … Young people grow up often being put in this box of what to do and what not to do and how to behave and don’t do this and don’t do that. And I want to empower, particularly my sons, with a sense that, just be bold, be audacious, have the audacity to dream big and then to know that with hard work they can achieve big things.

Michael Boulware Moore:

One of the statements that are common to business is, “Don’t take it personally, it’s just business.”

Eileen:

Yeah. I’ve heard it many, many times.

Alicia:

An overstatement, yes.

Michael Boulware Moore:

And I’m sure you’ve-

Eileen:

Everybody’s personal.

Michael Boulware Moore:

Everything is personal. When you’re dealing with human beings, everything is personal. And that doesn’t mean that you do anything different. Sometimes you’ve got to make hard decisions and sometimes you’ve got to communicate those to people. And saying, “It’s not personal, it’s just business,” that really doesn’t inoculate you from responsibility or being thoughtful for taking into consideration another person’s feelings and perspectives. So, again, off the top of my head, that’s what comes to mind.

Eileen:

Well, thank you. Yeah, that one really bothers me. “Oh, it’s nothing personal.” But you know what? Everybody’s a human, and humankind is when you do something, you treat them with dignity and respect. And so, thank you for sharing that one [inaudible 00:27:23]. It’s always been a pet peeve of mine.

Alicia:

Yeah, mine too. I’m like, “What do you mean, don’t take it personally? It is personal.”

Eileen:

So thank you for sharing those words of wisdom.

Eileen:

Thank you for joining us on Soul of a Leader podcast. We are igniting a new way of leading with your soul and interviewing ordinary people with extraordinary impact. Thank you for listening to the stories of our leaders who will help and guide you on your leadership journey. For more information on our podcast, please visit our website at http://www.soulofaleader.com. Thank you for listening.