Alicia Straughter:

Hello, and welcome to Soul of a Leader podcast, where we ignite soulful conversations with leaders. On today’s episode, Dr. Alicia and Dr. Eileen, sit with the founder and managing partner of Hirewell, Matthew Massucci, and partner and human resource Bill Gates to discuss transparency and authenticity when running a business.

Eileen Timmins:

Hello, and welcome to Soul of a Leader. Today on our episode, we have Matt Massucci, the founder and CEO of Hirewell, a Chicago based recruiting and talent acquisition provider. At Hirewell, they’re recognized for hiring that is hard, and hiring well is even harder. And we also have Bill Gates who’s a partner with the HR team there. He specializes in human resources and he joined Hirewell in 2011. He’s a graduate of DePauw University, and I have worked with Bill personally in doing business with him and Hirewell and I can’t say enough great things about them and how they really connect with the culture and the attributes of fitting a role and appropriate people with leaders. And so welcome. Welcome to both of you.

Matt:

Thanks for having us.

Eileen Timmins:

And with that, Matt, may I ask you why Hirewell? Why did you come up with that name?

Matt:

That’s a great question. So we’ve been in business going on 19 years, which seems forever. We were not initially called Hirewell. It used to be Human Capital Management Solutions, which doesn’t exactly roll off the tongue. And a former employee came up with the name Hirewell, so we did a rebranding roughly nine years ago. So, we liked the play on words, the concept is, as you said before, hiring as hard as it is, but we try to help companies hire well.

Matt:

And also the concept of companies coming back and working with us over a long period of time. That’s really what’s been our differentiator throughout our kind of existence is long term relationships. I mean, we’re in a business that tends to be very transactional and it also doesn’t always have the best reputation. And we have always tried to take a different approach towards that with partnerships and relationships that go for people’s entire career.

Bill:

For the record though, I did join in 2011 when we were called Human Capital Management Solutions, so I clearly did not join due to the name.

Eileen Timmins:

Well, you perform due to the name. Okay. You do hire well. So, I’ll say that.

Alicia Straughter:

Well, welcome both Bill and Matthew. This is Dr. Alicia. So we certainly appreciate your time. So, I got a question for you, Matt, and you’ve been there since the beginning, and we all know we’re dealing with COVID-19. And so what would be a couple of challenges that you see going forward that your industry is going to have to deal with?

Matt:

It’s a great question. So, we started in 2001, and I’m not sure how many people, your listeners who were in the workforce at that time, but it was 2001. It was a really challenging year. So, in March of that year, it was the dot com crash. We started the company in May and then September 11th happened four months later. So it was a challenging time. It took several years to kind of dig out of that. And we hit a pretty strong point in 2008 and right at that time, then we hit the great recession and the financial crash.

Matt:

So, unfortunately, this is now the third recession I’ve gone through. So, each one is different, there’s no playbook, but you realize how tough it is. And I think that’s an interesting challenge because it’s been 10 plus years of a pretty, of a bull market, bull hiring, as well as the stock market and housing markets. So, there’s a lot of people who have never dealt with anything like this in their careers. So, it’s challenging. I mean, you can never prepare for it. You can never be ready for it. But I think the key is just recognizing no matter what your role is, whether it’s a leader or individual contributor, you’d have to be ready to just double down, work twice as hard, and just get through it.

Matt:

And you don’t know kind of how long it’s going to take or what it’s going to look like, but in recruiting and talent acquisition, it’s a challenge. We’re doing our best right now. We’ve done it in the past. And I think we’re working hard to get through it all and help our clients. And then also make sure all of our internal employees recognize that we’re built with stamina and you just have to kind of grind through it.

Eileen Timmins:

And so Matt and then Bill, you can answer afterward is, Matt shares some of those skills or values that you believe you’re aligned to as, one, it’s a great success that you started the business in 2001 and you’re still here. I mean, and now we’re going through COVID. So obviously you’ve had a lot of attributes and growth over that time period. And what values do you believe made you successful through this?

Matt:

I think it starts with perseverance or resiliency. I think we look for people internally that have a strong work ethic who understand that there’s no shortcut to success, and you have to work hard and you have to also put your clients first. And so, we’re in a business where it can be seen as very transactional. And so, by really kind of focusing on the people element and those strong relationships, that’s what’s helped us in the past and that’s what’s helping us right now. It’s not easy right there, but empathy is probably the most important thing. We’ve really been talking about it a lot over the last six, seven weeks . You talk to a lot of different people and everybody’s going through different things right now. Right?

Matt:

So, I mean, 26 million people have had to file for unemployment in the last month. I mean, that’s unheard of. And so you don’t know what people are going through at any given time, you know what their challenges are. So again, it’s sort of leading with that empathy and then just trying to care about people and their wellbeing and their success. And our belief is by doing that, good things will come from it. And we’ll be in a position to help people at some point now or down the line.

Alicia Straughter:

Yeah. I like that part about leading with empathy.

Eileen Timmins:

Yeah. That’s part of leading with your soul, and how about Bill? Bill, what values have you seen that you are leading with right now as we go through COVID-19?

Bill:

I think it starts at the top. I mean Matt’s, I’m not just trying to suck up to him, but you know, leadership definitely there at the top has got to be, it’s got to be intact and it resonates down to everyone else underneath him. I think one of the things about a recruiting company in general, I mean, I think everyone can attest to this, is the value is not really usually the brand, it’s the people internally that really make up the actual organization and keep clients. I, like Eileen, as happy with the people that we deliver as possible, and given everything going on right now that no one’s really, not no one’s hiring, but hiring has decreased significantly. So, at the end of the day, what do we do from an employee population perspective and how do we create and send the right and accurate message to all of the current employees, to where they don’t feel like their jobs are necessarily at jeopardy?

Bill:

And they’re still feeling confident and comfortable that we’re going to come out of this thing on the right side of the equation. And, I think we’ve done that really well with Matt and the rest of the partners to really do this. And we’re all kind of learning on our feet too. And I think a lot of it, Matt said empathy’s important, but I think honesty and transparency is also extremely important during this time because there is so much uncertainty where even the best and the greatest leaders in the United States don’t know what the heck’s going on. So, it’s really important from a transparency perspective to give as much detail as possible to make your employees feel comfortable.

Alicia Straughter:

You know, I like one of the points you brought up Bill, it’s about learning on your feet. And you brought out two key points in that with honesty and transparency. So what are the two key learning points that you can think of that really resonated with everyone across the board at the firm?

Bill:

Two points, I think just that. I mean, I think we’ve tried to really kind of construct a way… Because everything’s virtual right now, which is really unusual for everybody. I mean, some places, other companies I think do have a little bit more of a virtual presence and I think as a whole society, we’re probably gradually moving towards more of a virtual area, but not at the snap of a finger, which is basically what’s happened. That Wednesday happened where the NFL or the NBA and all of the seasons got canceled and basically everyone was working from home that following Thursday or maybe potentially that following Monday. And I think what we’ve done really well is being able to create not only an internal structure dialogue wise, that’s done really well to be able to keep that transparency within the current employees at Hirewell, but also I think we’ve developed a good structure to make sure we have talked to our clients and we know where they’ve gone on hold, on a particular job.

Bill:

We’ve figured out a game plan on what to do and when to check in with them again when those positions ultimately open up again. So I think we’ve started to try to see where the curve essentially is going as much as we possibly can, even though most people have no clue, but still by not creating this chaotic and uncertainty where employees, not everyone is sitting in great positions to where they can pay their bills every day. So, we do have some more junior level individuals that work within Hirewell, and it’s important to make sure that they’re in positions that they feel like they have strong job security. So, I think those are really kind of some points that we’ve done very well during this unique time.

Matt:

One point I’d add on that. We’re probably most proud of our culture as an organization, right? We have great people, we’re in a business that tends to have extremely high turnover. And ours is probably a quarter of what the industry average is. And part of that culture is built by people being in our office and being around each other. It’s a group that I think, it’s a diverse set of personalities and people, but at the same time, they feed off each other well. And so it’s been, that’s been, kind of to piggyback off what Bill said, that’s been a challenge is to not only have everybody remote but figure out how to maintain that culture.

Matt:

So, I think that like Bill and his peers  have done a great job in just working hard and kind of being creative. So it’s kind of, it’s the daily standups just to get everybody on the same page, doing one on ones with their teams, but then also mixing in kind of company-wide and team-wide events. So, Bill coordinated a company trivia contest last week. So we did it over Zoom. I think we had 35 out of 50 people joining and it was great, right. It was just an hour or so. A lot of people brought their spouses or significant others. So that was great because then it was just a way for everybody to kind of connect and sort of making it a little bit more fun and enjoyable, which was fun.

Matt:

So, I’ve been impressed to see people step up. We really encourage innovation and new ideas. I’m a firm believer that anybody… You can’t look at the top five people to come up with all your ideas. You need everybody in the company doing it. And I think we’ve done well with that. And if anything, that’s what we’ve been pushing for is our creator. The world is changing, for us to stay relevant, for us to kind of stay viable, everybody needs to be thinking of ways to evolve from a business perspective, from a kind of how we operate, how we do things and let’s rethink everything. So, it’s been exciting to see.

Eileen Timmins:

So, I heard honesty and transparency. And when I looked at your website, it said that. Now, to be successful in business, you obviously have been leading honestly and with transparency. Do you feel during this time that that has stepped up tremendously in being an authentic leader and really being transparent, open communication, and being there for your employees and your clients has exponentially increased?

Matt:

Yeah. And it’s a good question. I mean, I like to think I always try to do that. We do 360s and I’ll get people’s feedback. I know it’s something that I might struggle with from a communication perspective. So it’s something I personally have worked on a lot over the last year. As a whole, our team is very extroverted social people, so they’re not, they might like to work from home for a day, but to do it for seven straight weeks is a real challenge. And so, it’s just important to kind of do that. And one thing I’ve done over the last two or so weeks is just trying to do a one-on-one with everybody in the company because in normal times, I have a very open-door policy. I’ll sit down anybody, I try to do it twice a year as it is.

Matt:

But now I’m finding that there are certain people that I frankly haven’t talked to in seven weeks. We might be on a Zoom call with 30 people on it, but I recognize that people are just so unsure. And again, you hear, you keep reading the paper, you see the stories of all these people getting let go. So I know there’s… It’s impossible for people not to be worried, especially kind of newer employees who just assume that that’s something to be worried about. So, it’s something that I’ve tried to do and I’m about three-quarters of the way through doing. And it’s been good in that I basically kind of the approach I take is just explained what I’ve seen, kind of what we’re seeing as an organization, a little bit of a recap over the last four to six weeks, and then kind of what I see happening over the next couple of weeks, as well as next couple months, and just ensure or assure people that we’re doing well.

Matt:

We’re confident we’re going to make it through it. We’re not going to have to do layoffs or cuts and we have to just continue to double down, work hard, and do our best to get through it.

Bill:

And one other point I’ll add too that I thought of as Matt was talking was definitely another aspect is positivity is definitely one of those areas. And we need to be very positive during these times, especially as a recruiting company when people aren’t hiring. And I think just anyone that’s been an agency or just recruiting, in general, becomes a very pessimistic person just by I think, natural. It’s just a gradual thing. So I think to be able to turn that switch around and be very positive about, “Hey, there is a light at the end of this tunnel and we are going to come through with this and companies are still going to be hiring later on,” and giving those employees internally, that reassurance, is just very important.

Bill:

And then the second point, I think Matt’s done comparatively to other companies in the recruiting world. I think there have been some other ones that have been overly ambitious in the past that have tried to grow too quickly and too fast. And I think those are the companies right now that are really getting hurt and having to lay off a ton of individuals because they have not been as conservative financially about who they’ve kind of brought on. And I think that’s attributed to Matt and his ability to make sure that he sees the numbers and looks at those. And really we can come out of this in a way to where we’re not in the negative here. So, those are kind of two other points I just wanted to echo on top of what we’ve already discussed.

Alicia Straughter:

I have a question for you, Matt, and we look at leadership in various ways. We can define it. What would you say will be a different outlook for you and your leadership, your  senior executive team? What would be different going post-COVID-19? How would that be different for you?

Matt:

It’s a good question. I think it would help if we knew when this was going to end, first off. I think it’s, for a while, and this is, so it’s a little bit of a pre-concept that I’ve been thinking about for a while. But it’s about perspective, right? Where I think there’s just, life has ups and downs and it’s easy to sort of losing sight of like, “Oh, I thought I had this deal going through and it didn’t.” And again, it’s sort of keeping perspective like that all the good things that are happening for you. And I think that’ll kind of be something that really doubles down after this because, holy cow, now all of a sudden we have something that is, now we have a real backdrop where we’re seeing just how bad things can get and how scary it can get for people.

Matt:

So, I think it’s just, no matter when you think it’s bad for you, unfortunately, it can be a lot worse for others. And just keeping things in perspective. And again, back to the positivity. That’s first and foremost, because like I said, you have to get through it all. And you have to just understand that there’s going to be challenges, there’s going to be struggling, but you got to stay grounded and just get through it.

Eileen Timmins:

Well, and with that, what I hear it’s about being positive and choosing joy or choosing to try to make the best out of a situation, which we’re in. Right? When we don’t know when it’s going to end, we know it’s going to end, but we don’t know. So how can we keep that higher vibration to ensure that we are moving ourselves, others, and also taking care of ourselves in this time being? Right? I know that you said that a lot of your employees are probably extroverts, right? And they really feed off of being with each other and doing things to help support that interaction you’re already doing.

Eileen Timmins:

What I heard, Matt, which is great, is you’re meeting with every employee. I read an article that some people just have Zoom Up, right? And they’re sitting there and having Up and they’re having office hours. And anybody can just come in and say, “Hi, how are you doing.” And one CEO had it for four hours and he was surprised at how many people just came in and said, “Hello, how are you doing?” So had the open door but on Zoom. So it sounds like meeting with each one of those employees is really helping your organization, not only internally, but externally, and it shows your leadership qualities.

Matt:

Thanks. I love that idea, by the way, of the Zoom office hours. I’m going to have to try to figure out how to do that.

Bill:

Yeah.

Eileen Timmins:

Yeah, I mean, I read it somewhere, so someone’s doing it so we can use it for sure.

Alicia Straughter:

So as we get ready to end, Matt or Bill, you can chime in, what would be some words of wisdom you will leave with Dr. Eileen and myself and our listening audience?

Matt:

I would just kind of just double down on the last concept that I said about the perspective and perseverance and positivity. Probably those three things are the key. It’s a challenging time now and everybody’s going through some different things. And as you both said, this will pass with, hopefully, it’s sooner than later and it may be later, but we all just stay positive. We all have to persevere. And then hopefully when things get better, we’ll have that perspective and we’ll learn from it. We’ll just continue to recognize that the skills and the experiences that got us through this will be things we want to kind of incorporate going forward.

Eileen Timmins:

I like that. It’s three Ps. Very easy to remember.

Matt:

Yeah.

Alicia Straughter:

Yes.

Bill:

And I think, to echo Matt’s point, I think to even kind of pivot a little bit more towards just kind of recruiting in general, I think words of wisdom, one, we’re going to come out of this. I mean, it’s eventually it’s going to, it’s inevitable, right? I mean, not only is the stock market going to turn around, but I think the hiring is going to increase. And I think, once it does, I think people that are unemployed, that are in different situations… First off, you need to stay positive, but I can assure you that this market is going to turn around and you will be able to ultimately end up finding a new role, and a job, even though this is the very unique timeframe, but when that time does come, and if you’re under one of our skill sets within Hirewell, definitely feel free to reach out to any of the folks internally at HireWell here.

Bill:

We’d love to be able to help you and coach you to get to the point where, whether it’s as Matt said, resume writing, whether it’s coaching on how to prep you for a particular interview and you haven’t interviewed for a while, we’d love to be able to help in any way we possibly can. Or on the flip side, once we’ve gotten out of this and you need help hiring, Eileen, you know where we are. So that’s just a plug for Hirewell.

Eileen Timmins:

Yeah.

Alicia Straughter:

Absolutely.

Eileen Timmins:

What I’m hearing is there is a servant-leadership coming through here where you are using your employee skill sets and you’re going out there to help people. And you’re helping people find jobs and understanding that on the other side, they are so grateful that they met you during this time because getting an offer, helping people this way, there is a shift in humankind going on, and you guys are helping it. You’re still a business, but you are delivering on this, and you may not think it, but you are serving, you’re becoming a servant leader, and an authentic leader, you are already, and people are very grateful. So, thank you.

Eileen Timmins:

Thank you for joining us on Soul of a Leader Podcast. We are igniting a new way of leading with your soul and interviewing ordinary people with extraordinary impact. Thank you for listening to the stories of our leaders who will help and guide you on your leadership journey. For more information on our podcast, please visit our website at wwwsoulofaleader.com. Thank you for listening.