Eileen:

Hello and welcome to a special edition of Soul of a Leader podcast, where we ignite soulful conversations with leaders. On today’s episode, Dr. Alicia and Dr. Eileen sit with the founder and president of Dads Do Make A Difference. Lisa Nkonoki to discuss Living Your Dream.

Alicia:

Welcome to Soul of a Leader podcast. We are igniting souls for leaders. On today’s show, we have Lisa Nkonoki. I don’t have to go into a long detail about her background. I’ve known Lisa for over 20 years. She is a phenomenal leader in her own right. Her background goes far as athletes, celebrities, corporate profiles. She really sits with them and gives them strategic direction. She leads them down a path or progress to help them successfully move their business forward in very productive and great ways when it comes to leading with their soul. So on today’s episode, we’re going to welcome Lisa Nkonoki, and she can give us more information about who she is and we’ll start the show.

Lisa:

Hey Alicia, how are you?

Alicia:

I’m doing just wonderful. How are you?

Lisa:

Good. I’m so excited to be here. My first podcast during this whole epidemic pandemic time. So I’m pretty excited to be able to do this and share some time with you and your audience.

Eileen:

Thank you so much. And we are doing this all remotely and this is our first one for the COVID, so thank you.

Lisa:

Yay. Thank you.

Alicia:

Yes, yes, this is our very first one during COVID-19 and Dr. Eileen and I said, “Hey, we’re not going to stop. I have a great guest,” and Lisa, we are so appreciative of your time and your efforts.

Lisa:

Well I feel safe on the team with Dr. Eileen and Dr. Alicia, we can’t do it [crosstalk 00:02:02]. We’re going good. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Alicia:

So what’s all this taking place and I know you deal with a lot of leaders. Let’s hear a little bit about your thoughts about in the time that we’re dealing with, how are you helping some of your clients in a leadership role?

Lisa:

Well, I think it’s really about mindfulness. It’s about trying to not just strategize, but trying to take a step back and reflect first of all. Taking time with family I think is first and foremost here. And then just mind assess that, though this has been a really crazy and stressful time and an unpredictable challenging time. It’s also a time to kind of look at some of the silver linings here. We do have more time. We are slowing down. I remember saying to my granddaughter as I was driving yesterday, I said, the streets are empty. It’s almost like it used to be on Sundays, just went to church and came home and the stores weren’t open. So I think in terms of family and quality time, it’s kind of forced us all to do things that we wouldn’t have thought of doing before. We’ve all been so busy.

Lisa:

The instant success, instant gratification, whether it’s fast food or a variety of things. So I don’t think that everything has been all bad with this. I do think there’s opportunity for us to all develop and grow in a different way. I mean, look at the world. Many of us have used social media, many of us have used the internet, but how many of us have had to depend on it now to really communicate. So people that have never ever used any of their devices are looking to get online or connect. So I do think it’s making us more mindful about things. It’s also making us take a step back and say, “Do we need to be as busy as we have been? Can we take time to sit down, play some games, do some puzzles? And also, can we really think about what’s important, what matters?”

Lisa:

And when you think about what matters, one of the things I say to all my clients is if you had 30 days to live, what would you be doing? This is one of those times that I think you should kind of sit back and think, and people always think in a short term version. They think, “Well, if I have 30 days, if I’m dying. So why does it always have to be if this was the end of your life, why can’t we ever take time to think about what we’d like to do if this was 30 days? What are we doing… Are we doing things that matter? Are we doing things that are meaningful? Are we also thinking about others and not just about ourselves? Because I think too often in times like these, we might be cozy and comfy in our own homes, but what about people that are homeless?

Lisa:

What about people that don’t have transportation or don’t have money? I mean, thank goodness that lights are on by a lot of the utility companies and the phones are on by the different utility companies. Thank goodness that you have governors and corporations that are thinking about relaxing some of the stresses when it comes to your bills, not everything, but enough to make you feel like, wow, I don’t have to think about that today.” But there’s some people that have been living like this under this duress forever.

Lisa:

There are people that have been living below the poverty line and always under this type of duress that have probably never seen the likes of just people being kind and say, “Hey, we’re not going to put that in your credit report.” So I think it’s a hopeful time for a lot of people. It’s kind of reset. It’s like the new year again, time to reset. Re-energize and refocus on what really matters, what means something to you and what you really want to be doing.

 

Eileen:

And do you think that with this crisis there’s more gratitude, more servant leadership, as we would like to say, leading with your soul and authentic leadership coming out of the leadership and people who are not leaders either? Is humankind being more kind to each other and will this… Do you foresee this staying, sticking?”

Lisa:

I honestly and answer both of your questions. One, I see that we are forever changed. All of us are forever changed.

Alicia:

Agree.

Lisa:

By this whole entire pandemic. I cannot see a Wembley stadium and all these big arenas being filled to the brim anymore. I hope that’s not true, but I can’t feel us feeling totally comfortable that we are in a cesspool of something that we might not know, just like at this time? I do feel, again, that simple as best, simplifying things might be best for everybody. I do feel that people are always good. People are always good no matter what the times I’ve been, we always have good people. And I think you’re able to see a lot of that. I think the fact that we are praising and remembering the people on the front line, are giving their lives.

Lisa:

I mean literally giving their lives every day. It’s not just cliche. This is really true. There’s so many people that have lost their lives that would have no idea. So I think it’s also… It’s a sad time. I think that we have so many heroes of a different sort that maybe nobody would have ever thought of them as heroes prior to this. So I do think that it’s caused a lot of panic in people, it’s caused a lot of anxiety. I think if you look by the grocery stores, I’ll tell you myself, I went a few weeks ago before it all really started jumping off. And I went to the grocery store assuming that I could find things. And when my granddaughter went in the store and came out and said, “There’s absolutely no meat,” I said, “What?” And she actually took a picture because she said, “The visual I think was going to catch me.”

Lisa:

And I said, “Are you kidding?” And we call like four or five stores. And they were like, “No.” And I was like, “Oh my goodness, people are in total panic.” So I’m like, “This is the end of the world.” And I think again, when you think about people that have means can make a big long term plan, people that don’t necessarily have the means can’t make that plan. They might want to make that plan, but they don’t have the means to, and people that are homeless, what are they doing? So I do think again, if we can think about more than just our own situations. I know another situation, a lot of the schools that have been doing distance learning…. I’ve heard schools say, “Well, we’re going to make sure that everybody gets a Chromebook or a computer or has access to online.” And I know that’s not true.

Lisa:

If you walked through the logistics, even if you tell somebody, “Here’s a coupon for 60 days free,” unless you’ve walked through the logistics of what that is for that person, they had an outstanding bill if they had it in someone else’s name. All those things that, again, we don’t sometimes drill down to the very bottom to see, “What does that person have to go through to enable the services that maybe a lot of us have and take for granted.” So again, I think we have to be a little bit more mindful about what it means to be kind. I think you can’t always look for everybody else to take the lead. You have to see what you can do yourself, which is amazing when I see all these manufacturers and fashion designers and people that are making masks that are turning their distilleries into things that they can make the soap and the rubs for everybody.

Lisa:

I mean, I think that’s ingenious that people are thinking of other ways to be purposeful. That I think is something that’s amazing that if we all… We have that ingenuity in us, we have that in us, and we’re in a tough spot and people are really thinking. So I love the idea that ingenuity and we’re using our creativity to do other things that spawn new businesses and people are even being in gen… They’re using their ingenuity and even giving away. They’re not necessarily looking to profit off of people in this very critical time. So I just think there’s so many silver linings that you can find. Of course, it’s distressful. I think when you see, the misinformation sometimes given from the past, I think that’s awfully disturbing. I don’t think it’s time for egos. I don’t think it’s time for finger pointing.

Lisa:

People are dying and I think that at the end of the day, I can’t even imagine. I mean, I’ve never had a time in my life where we couldn’t have a funeral, right now. What do you do if you’re in another state and you can’t fly to see your family? Or even if you’re in that same town and can’t get into the hospital, I had to go to the medical facility. They’re not playing, they’re trying to keep people safe. So one person in the hospital, you can’t see your loved ones. I can’t imagine how gut wrenching that must be to have to be on FaceTime or just get a message that your loved one has passed away. Those things I think are just… I don’t believe we’re the United States of America when those kinds of things, I mean, we’re not in some war torn village in a Third World country.

Lisa:

We’re in the United States. It’s inexcusable. And for anybody to think just kind of winking and not and blaming other people is enough, I think is absolutely disgusting. And I do think that people should demand more in terms of accountability. And then at the end of the day, we should all use our right as citizens to exercise our power to vote. Whether it’s on the local level, state level, or national level. I think it’s disgusting when I think that you still have leadership in different states who feel that this tragedy or this virus can not befall their own community. I mean they’re absolutely putting their own communities in harm’s way.

Lisa:

I say, goodness that I’m here on the East Coast in Connecticut also with ties and Massachusetts it’s New York and I thank God the leadership here has not waited, has gone ahead and put our community, our members of our community first. I know in Chicago they’re stepping up. The medical teams are stepping up there. But again, it’s a sad time and you can also watch too much news. I happen to be a news junkie, so I watch it, but I have a different tolerance. I can watch it because I feel I need to be tuned in. I want to know what’s going on where for some people it’s too depressing. It’s too overwhelming. So I understand that. I think you have to turn it off and reset every now and again.

Alicia:

So one of the things I noticed with this pandemic is, what we would…in  business call the people who make minimum wage. You would call them low wage employees. How would you begin to define what those individuals are representing now? What you say, they are definitely stepping up in a leadership role that people may have overlooked them as being not important or unimportant or not valuable to the team. Because what I see right now is these individuals are risking their lives. That’s a certain level of leadership in them from the beginning. So what’s your thought about that? Does leadership really have a title?

Lisa:

Every person on your team is valuable or I feel they wouldn’t be there.

Alicia:

Absolutely, yes.

Lisa:

I think again, what is shortsighted is if you have someone who is a lower wage earner and you’re asking them to risk their life and their family’s life because they’re going home to a family possibly, and we might be home, again, in the comforts and confines of our a nice big homes. I think that if it’s good enough for us to protect ourselves, we need to protect people at all levels. I don’t see any distinction between a lower level person. Our lives are all valuable.

Alicia:

Yes.

Lisa:

And they are all valuable.

Eileen:

And being in HR we see that prior to this event, there was fighting for $15 an hour, paid benefits. What I see out of this, it’s this crisis on the other side. I think it’ll be a little different. These employees are the ones that are giving us a third lifeline right now, for the people who are not there, in those jobs, and I believe there’ll be a shift in the value and the contribution to society that they have made and everybody… There’ll be a less… What should I say?

Lisa:

Essential?

Eileen:

Yes, exactly. Exactly. Because these people are… Everyday I go, if I go to Whole Foods or Walgreens or wherever, it’s a thank you. Because without them I wouldn’t be moving on. So this is phenomenal.

Lisa:

It’s interesting you said that. I actually was in a grocery store earlier today, and my daughter happened to be behind me, and she asked the cashier for some information and I didn’t hear her say thank you right away. But she did say thank you. And the woman looked at me and she said, “No one ever says that to me. Like that was so surprising that you guys said thank you.” I was like, “Oh, that’s what we’re supposed to do.” Not just to this time. Good manners are never out of style, ever.

Alicia:

Correct.

Lisa:

So I think washing your hands is never out of style. I mean, I am just amazed that it takes us to hear washing our hands when I joke, but I tell my grandkids, “Did you wash your hands and sing the happy birthday song?” I have been saying that forever. Not just now. So I think we’ve lost some of the basic etiquette that’s never been my style that now everybody is saying it like it’s not something we learned basic. Just tie your shoes, all these things that we use. It’s the basics again.

Lisa:

So in answer to your question, I hope that things will be different for people. One thing that I definitely was thrilled to see was when they put through the stimulus package, didn’t have a family leave act, an emergency family leave act that people, whether you’re self employed, whether you’re… No matter what your wages were, you would get a percentage plus a bump up. I think that will be very valuable to a lot of people. They might even make more on unemployment in the short term, which might just give their family a lifeline because I don’t think anybody wants to just be paid to do nothing. I don’t think people really want a handout. People want to just be valued. Yes, somebody wants to be valued and acknowledged for whatever their role is. I don’t think everybody wants to be the CEO of the company.

Lisa:

There’s plenty of people that I know I work with that are happy to take a paycheck and go home because they don’t want the extra headaches. But I think everybody wants to be valued. Everybody wants to be a key member of the team. They want to be informed. They want to be supported, they want to be cheered on, and they want to be… They want their voice to be heard. So I don’t think that if we didn’t do it enough before, and I don’t think we did it enough before, I pray to God that it will be done differently this time. And I do think we’re looking at the UPS driver and all these other people who are out on the road still while we were safely at home.

Lisa:

That’s not to say… I think everybody has to look at how they treat each other. If you’re a boss, how do you want to lead? Do you want to lead by dragging people with you? Or do you want to have an effective team where everybody can pull their own weight and do what that you can count on the strengths and the… the challenges and the strengths that we helped to build each other up? And I think also leadership that listens from the top that also can also make some adjustments and improvements. I think that’s also something that’s very critical. The lead by example, when you at the top can take constructive criticism and take what might help, I heard somebody… I think it was the leader of the Girl Scouts I think was saying how they allow their employees to bring their babies to work.

 

Lisa:

The women bring their newborns up to age six months. And she was honest in her interview and she said, “At first I’m a mom,” I thought, “No, this isn’t going to work. We’re not going to be able to focus.” But then she said she had to do some research and be open to the possibility instead of being I know it all and saying this absolutely cannot work. She was honest in the fact that she was taken aback at first, but then she did it and she said then, one of the best things for their company in terms of really walking the walk and talking the talk, not just saying, “We’re about all these things.” So I do think it’ll hopefully help other companies and other people to lead by example. I love the fact that you have a Warren Buffett and Robert Kraft who used not only their resources but their private jets to go to China to get other PPE things or other things that were necessary to help the hospitals.

Lisa:

Whether it’s in Massachusetts, New York, I just think it’s or wherever it was. I think it behooves us to have people do things wherever they can at their level. It doesn’t always have to be money, but money helps in these types of times. But it also helps for us to remember soup kitchens, you have restaurants who might be closed or who might only be doing takeout, but they’re still taking dinners and lunch to the hospital, to local hospitals, to the frontline to feed those workers, those doctors, those nurses, the cleaning crew. That’s what we need more of those types of things where again, we can share each other and we can feel like, how do we make a difference because you’re making a difference. We need to do our part too. So I hope… Like you said, after this is over, I hope that we’re all mindful and we don’t look at people as a pecking order anymore. We kind of look at them… We need everybody.

Eileen:

We’re all connected,

Lisa:

We’re all connected. We need everybody and we can learn from everybody. We can always learn from everybody. I’m fascinated. I always say one of my hobbies is talking and meeting people and it’s fascinating stories and learning about people. It’s not just learning about everybody at the top. It’s learning what your journey is. How did you get where you’re at on your journey? And I think that goes back to my whole concept of living your dreams. You have to work on the personal to get to the professional and you can’t be the best professional as you kind of have some understanding of where that person came from, what their values are, what made them tick. Maybe something that makes them work harder than the next person.

Eileen:

Yeah, everybody has a story and we don’t go through this life without scars.

Lisa:

That’s right.

Eileen:

Every single one of us no matter what level you are and those scars do heal. And they make us stronger. And you’re totally right. Stories are the bridge to the heart and the head. And that’s what makes us each unique and how we each can contribute to other’s lives. And also in the workplace too.

Lisa:

Well, how we learn from each other, we can learn-

Alicia:

Absolutely yes.

Lisa:

My granddaughter again was doing a report on childhood trauma and what that does, and she was trying to figure out a way not to just talk about other people. At first, she did want to talk about other people and I said, “Talk about yourself.” And some of us have… We might think we have an experienced trauma, but you don’t really know what that is. You don’t really know… And I joked with her, I said, “It’s like an onion,” take the onion and how many layers do we have to peel back to really get to the heart of what really helped that person grow and develop to be who they are. Good, bad, or indifferent. I don’t think there’s such a thing as a bad, but it’s an understanding why people might be the way they are, and having some more empathy and taking the time to kind of look and not just judge and say, “Oh, that’s why they’re that way.” No, you don’t really… Maybe they didn’t tell you the story. Maybe they forgot the story themselves because maybe they didn’t think they mattered.

Lisa:

And when you make someone feel like they matter, that’s why I always start with, “What would you do if you had 30 days to live?” Because when we say, “Oh..” Somebody said I want to travel somewhere else. With who? How? How would you get there? Who else would be there? What would you wear? What would you eat? All those things are important. I always joke and say, if I was on my deathbed, who would I want standing next to me? Somebody that makes me cry, laughing, die, laughing. That’s what you want to kind of focus in on is what… Who are the people that matter?

Lisa:

And even for yourself, for all of us to take the time in the morning to say, “Hi, how are you? How are you surviving? Are you okay? Can I do anything for you during this time? I might not be able to get out, but I just want to say hi, you mattered. Hey, do you know you did this?” Somebody called me the other day and said, “Do you know that you matter to me?” And I said, “Yeah, I think I do.” They said, “No, you don’t, because I never told you. I’m telling you now.”

Alicia:

And so what I’m hearing from you is there is a sense of spirituality or connection and individuals who are, I would say are leaders in their own right. But there is an importance of having that connection because in order to connect with people, you got to have something spiritual on the inside to be able to feel, just like you said, you got that call and say, “Yeah, you matter to me or how you doing this morning?” And back to that, I was in the Mariano’s and I waited patiently while the young man was scrubbing and washing off each cart as we took. So a couple of ladies took a cart before me and I was like, “No, I’m going to thank him.”

Lisa:

That’s right.

Alicia:

He’s here taking up his risk of his time, his risk and time is like to wash a cart for me. No thank you, because you matter to me. But then to me that’s that spiritual connection of understanding that people are valuable. So that’s what I’m hearing from you. Now, my other question to you is, do you feel that there is a sense of importance for leaders to have a spiritual connection as they lead? Because definitely we’re headed to a change.

Lisa:

I think there is. I will tell you, I think where you see some of the states… And this is just my own personal opinion, where do you see some of the states who, you know in the Southern part in particular, which religion is important to all of us on some level, no matter what it is that we profess to believe in. I do think again that where you have people that are so consumed that they feel that it’s more important to put people at risk and keep the churches open or keep people crowded together. I personally think that’s dangerous. I think they’re confusing and conflicted in the sense that they think it’s people trying to keep them away from God or Jehovah or whoever it is. And I think it’s about safety. It’s just like if there was a tornado coming, you do not see churches saying, “Well, we’re going to stay open during the tornado.”

Lisa:

They just don’t know it. So when we see people dropping like flies, why would we make a judgment call to either keep churches open and also the thing the golf courses are or necessary locations, and I’m not making any judgment call on people that golf. It’s just the fact of why can’t we be neighborly and a lead and say, “Even if it’s not impacting us right now, it’s impacting someone.” And if we could hold a prayer service, whether it’s online, whether it’s, people will state it outside and spaced outside away from each other and we’re still praying for each other. I don’t understand why we have to be in defiance and lead innocent people who might be trusting us as the leaders, and lead them astray in a way that might be a point of no return.

Lisa:

And that’s very scary to me when we use our power to lead or confuse people that are looking for direction. I think that is very scary when that happens. And again, I always point to even when I speak to my clients, I tell them my job is to try and pull out of you what was already in you. Yes, I didn’t give you your talents. You had God given talents or whomever again, that you believe is your higher power, but I have a gift to try and help you channel that and challenge you to do things that maybe you weren’t able to tap into your potential. Tap into your passion, but I didn’t give you anything. You already had it. You just didn’t know how to utilize that, how to turn it into action or to create a strategy for yourself to go to the next level.

Lisa:

But I never take credit for the fact that I created something. I might have a vision that you didn’t see that I helped to bring out in you, which is very much what I do. But I again am careful to not lead someone to say… If someone asks me, “Well do you think I should sing?” I would say, “I can tell you what my gut says, but I’m not the end of the road. Let me check with someone else. Let me see what other people say.”

 

Lisa:

I can tell you what I feel, but that doesn’t mean that I might think you’re a great singer and the guy down the street might say, “Where did you get that idea from?” Now, because of my expertise, I have been pretty spot on. But again, I never just… I think sometimes when you know too much, it becomes arrogant sometimes, you can’t tune in to other people that are leaders or other people that are their expertise.

Lisa:

I think when you just go on what you have to say always and never can try to realize that we all have the opportunity to learn, all of us. I love information. I’m a news junkie as I said, but I also love reading. I love to understand other things. I love to learn when they say new words that I’m not familiar with. Or if it’s something around the intubating, what are they doing when they’re intubating people? I want to understand what they are doing when they’re saying with the crisis, they’re intubating a lot of people at the hospital?

Lisa:

I want to know more in depth. What does that mean exactly? I understand it’s something that you’re doing to get them to breathe, but I want to understand that a little bit more. That’s just my own curiosity. And again, I think that’s what we have to be. We have to be careful if we’re leaders in a position of power that we utilize that for the good and really ask ourselves, ‘Are we doing this on the whole we’re not just doing this for ourselves?” And I think too often it’s just about one person sometimes.

Eileen:

And thank you so much for those wonderful words and for guiding our listeners here and as we wrap up, there’s one question that we would like to ask you.

Lisa:

Okay.

Eileen:

Share some words of wisdom around leading with your soul and with your wealth of experience and all the clients you support, what would you like to leave us with today?

Lisa:

Well, I think one of the monikers that I love the most is the purveyor of possibility. I consider myself to be a purveyor of possibility. I think that anything is possible. If you do something enough, you can… If you wanted to build a skyscraper and you studied it, and you talked to people and you understood it, and you did the best you could, you can do what it is you set out to do. And I think that’s what we don’t have enough of. We don’t have enough of cheering other people on to what their dreams are.

Lisa:

That for me is so important, and again, during this time, while we have time to reset, kind of take a step back, maybe people also realize, “Hey, I might want to be in the field of medicine after this.” Maybe I want to be on the front lines and understand, look at all the people that volunteered when New York State said we needed help. There might be other people that realize that they have a role to play and maybe it’s more clear now to people what really makes them feel good.

Lisa:

Sometimes people say, “Oh, I like helping people.” That could take on a lot of different art forms, and people I think will really get in touch with what really is important, what really matters. I think people value teachers a lot more because I hear a lot of people say, “Oh my goodness, I’m home with my kids. I love the time, but it’s taken me to midnight to come up with these lesson plans.” So I think we can value people more and I think we can believe anything is possible. If we’re going to tell our kids anything’s possible, then we have to lead by that example and we have to believe in ourselves.

Lisa:

I always try and put enthusiasm into it. And what are we going to put in the air? Are we going to inject the world with more positivity and more lovingness? Or are we going to infect the world with negativity? We need to be all about interjecting as much positive love and devotion and spirituality and sharing that with the world and kind of making this… Making it infectious. That’s what we need to do because if I’m positive and hopeful, I hopefully can then transfer that to you in some way, shape, or form with the blessing, at the end of the day, I think we’re all blessings.

Eileen:

Thank you for joining us on Soul of a Leader podcast. We are igniting a new way of leading with your soul, and interviewing ordinary people with extraordinary impact. Thank you for listening to the stories of our leaders who will help and guide you on your leadership journey. For more information on our podcast, please visit our website@www.soulofaleader.com. Thank you for listening.