Alicia:
Hello, and welcome to Soul of a Leader podcast where we ignite soulful conversations with leaders. On today’s episode, Dr. Alicia and Dr. Eileen sit with former NFL star Desmond Clark to discuss leading from your extraordinary best.

Eileen:
Hello, and welcome to Soul a Leader podcast where we share inspirational leadership stories with excellent leaders in their own right. We have developed this podcast with the aim to ignite soulful conversations with leaders. We all know that our experiences and stories are bridges between the head and the heart. That includes our soul. A person’s moral or emotional nature is their sense of identity, which is an asset to being human. Let’s face it, we’re all part of humankind, and visionary leaders realize that it is their soul that ignites followers who are willing to go above and beyond the call of duty to provide positive outcomes for all.

Alicia:
So, one of the reasons why we are doing Soul of a Leader, we believe that leaders are leading a troop of individuals, whether it’s in corporate America or in a nonprofit, or even in your home. And at some point we know that you have to flow from your soul. We also understand that leaders celebrate, ignite success once they achieve certain successes. And one of the reasons why we invite certain guests because we believe that they also have some experiences or insight on leading with their soul. One of our guests here today with us is Desmond Clark, a former star on an NFL team here in Chicago. It’s called the Chicago Bears.

Eileen:
Go bears!

Alicia:
Yes, he is an author, a speaker, entrepreneur, and he loves giving back. So, he’s a philanthropist. During his tenure with the NFL, he played with Denver Broncos, the Miami Dolphins and eight years with the Chicago Bears. Retiring as the second leading tight end in the Bears history, for catches, yards, touch downs behind only the Hall of Famer Mike Ditka. So, we will like to welcome Desmond Clark.

Desmond:
Thank you. Happy to be here.

Eileen:
Desmond, did we miss anything that you’d like to add to your background?

Desmond:
I’m sure we’ll touch on a lot of that as we get going.

Eileen:
Great. Well thank you. We’re so happy to have you here.

Alicia:
Yes, we are absolutely happy to have you. I met Desmond as I was running an organization called Athletes Against Drugs. He was phenomenal with speaking to our youth, he did an excellent job in my opinion. Professionally and personally, he has shown me his ability to lead. So, one of the questions we want to start with Desmond is, let’s talk a little bit about how do you lead from your extraordinary best? A lot of times people get involved and they just don’t understand the connection from the soul and heart. Let’s talk a little bit about how you see leading from your extraordinary best?

Desmond:
So, I believe in my five F’s and those five F’s are faith, family, fitness, finances, and fun. In that order, and it starts with faith. I believe we are all connected spiritually, in some sort of way, is beyond my comprehension how, but that’s not for me to find out, my thing is just for me to connect into it. And I think when you say, “Hey, how do you lead from that standpoint?” You first have to lead yourself and if you can’t lead yourself you can’t lead anyone else.

Desmond:
And actually this was 2017 when things were not going well for me. A lot of personal issues, transitions that I was going through and I said, “Hey, I got to get back to the essence of who I am, who I supposed to be.” In January 1st of 2017 is when I started back going to church and make that commitment to go to church. And it’s not necessarily about going to church. It was a commitment to get back into the spiritual side of who I am. Because I had let that go somewhat and I just wanted to tap back into it. And going back to church was my way of doing that. So, I believe first before you can lead anybody else in that manner, you first have to lead yourself.

Alicia:
Oh, excellent. You touch on something that Dr. Eileen and I are really keen on and that’s spiritual leadership. It is important, we see this as a value to have a connection with God or going to church to learn because you go there for training so that you can go back in the workplace to lead. So, that is really key that you picked that up. That was important for your next level.

Eileen:
And what I liked what I heard is the nourishment. Awhile ago a spiritual director shared with me that you get nourished everyday with food, but you never really understand what that means. By going to church or making time to meditate or pray you are getting nourished in that manner. And you may not know the impact to it until you really have to pull it in front of you, celebrate or deal with a crisis or some chaos. So, when you said nourish instead it just clicked with that quote. So, thank you so much for sharing it.

Desmond:
Yeah, absolutely. I know for me now it’s a must in a selfish way for me because as a “leader” we have to empty our cup and to other people all the time. So, how do we refill that cup? You do that in partnership with other people that lead you and help fill you back up. But for me, I get a lot of that spiritually by connecting with my church and connecting to the people in my church inside and outside of the church. So, as a leader you have to find a way to refill your cup because every single day you’re emptying out that cup to the people to actually follow you.

 

Alicia:
So, would you say that the importance of leading from your extraordinary best is taking the time out for refueling to be your best self, to recognize… Because I always say that when you’re leading, you’re really learning about yourself. So, what are some of the points that you would think of as you’ve been going through your transition as you made that commitment level? What are some attributes or characteristics that you start to zone in on how you can develop and have grown as a leader?
Desmond:
The number one thing that comes to mind and probably the most important thing as a leader is always trying to discover and look for how you can offer value to others. And that’s huge because a lot of people, and we all do this at times, we chase other things, but I believe when you become most valuable is when you are able to add value. And I have this conversation with a lot of people from all walks of life and the thing that I recognize is that people don’t necessarily know that they have value. They think value is monetary. Value can be a lot of different things. Value could come just in being a friend, going around giving compliments which are free, just to make people feel good about themselves.

Desmond:
Value can be monetary, value could be a professional value where you’re actually going out and helping someone within your profession. You just have to find what’s valuable to that person. And if you can offer find a way to offer that value to them. But first you have to connect with someone because value it’s not what I think it is, is what you think value is for you. So, the only way to connect into that is to have the conversation and to understand what that person is doing, going through or trying to accomplish.

Eileen:
And taking the time like you said, value, what I may think value is to me, may not be value to the other person. So, understanding the receiver and how you can help that. One of my quotes on LinkedIn is, “If you’re not opening doors to others, you’re closing them.” And by taking that minute and realizing that we’re humankind and human beings on this planet making… We’re here having a spiritual experience makes all the difference. And I’m with you and I know Alicia is too about adding value every day to assist others. And that’s really behind the mission behind this podcast.

Alicia:
Oh, absolutely. I agree with you. Leadership is about serving others, and we can think of a number of ways to do that. Often times people think being in a leadership role it’s about being in charge. But I would say it’s about serving, would you say the same Desmond?
Desmond:
I would definitely say that and just to go a little bit farther and elaborate on what you said. Leadership is not about a title, is not about how much money you make. It’s not about any of these exterior things. Leadership is all about who you are as a person and what makes you a leader is people wanting to follow you. And people want to follow people that makes them feel valuable. Followers want to follow leaders who are nonjudgmental.

Desmond:
Those type of qualities are what makes you a leader. So, I think in our society, and it’s coming around, it used to be about titles and it used to be about prestige and this type of stuff. But those people are not necessarily leaders, some are, a lot of them are, but the leaders are the people who, hey, when the leader steps left, everybody wants to step left because they know that that leader has their back. And they want to be protected, they want to be covered and they want to be with someone who they know is going to push them to the forefront, help them get to where they’re going to help them accomplish the things that they’re trying to accomplish.

Eileen:
Yeah, and I agree with you, you brought out something that was very instrumental. In society we look at the exterior of what people have, things and positions and titles and when you’re a real leader you know that’s not important. You know there’s no value in it. There’s no sense of hope from things, but there is a sense of wisdom from when you have to lead. You use your wisdom and those strategies for when you have to help someone out of a situation. When you have to make critical decisions with your team. One key point that I heard you say is, what people perceived a leader from what they see. Can you kind of define some characteristics of what you would define yourself as a leadership quality?

Desmond:
Yeah, I think it starts with kind of your moral compass, the willingness to do the right thing, the willingness to put others first, the willingness to sacrifice for others. I think those are the first characteristics that come to mind. Being authentic is another, I think people really gravitate to those people who are authentic and they can share not only the good but the bad and everything else and say, “Hey, I’m no different than you, I had to go through X, Y and Z and this is how I dealt with it. These were the things that I struggle with.” So, being authentic is huge. So, those are some of the characteristics that I try to put out there with people. Always say that I’m open book and I am, because the book is out.

Desmond:
But what I found to be most rewarding is being open, is telling those stories about the good, the pain, how you rebounded from it. One of the most gratifying things from coming off of a stage and talking to people is to have someone come up to you and said, “You know what man, when you said this, that, or the other that really touched me because I’m going through this and that just gave me hope that I can get through it or I can do something about it.” That’s the most rewarding thing that can happen when you’re out speaking to people. So, and that just comes from just putting it out there, just laying it out there. Because one of the things that I think a lot of people go through, they assume that they’re the only one that’s going through it. We all go through a lot of the same things, but we experience it different. And when you can share in those experiences, it makes you feel like man, I’m not the only one and if this guy can do it, because he’s just like me, I can get through it also.

Eileen:
Yeah. And as we look at our time as a spiritual being here on planet earth, we all have times where we will experience pleasure and pain, right? And we have to understand as human beings that we are here and we’re all connected. And by helping each other and sharing our values and being resilient and telling our stories, we are serving and we are leading by the soul. So, I really liked how you summarized that, what you just said about being there for people, sharing your story, understanding that everybody’s been through something and it’s just about connecting to make it really bloom and help somebody and add value back to your value portion.

Alicia:
Yeah, because having value is really good. But tell us about you having courage to say what needs to be said in a situation? There’s the courage moment that you have to step out and say something, so give us a story.

Desmond:
Man, yeah. Sometimes when you have to save what needs to be said as when you may lose some people for a while until they realize or you realize because somebody said, well they needed to say to you that, they’re saying it out of the goodness of their heart. I can remember just being in college and playing ball and we were not the greatest of teams that way for us. And I used to get so upset because if we’re not winning games, we need to be working harder. And it was a lot of times even in the pros where you have guys that were not giving their best or giving their all. No, and I’m going with a different story because something just clicked in for me.

Desmond:
My older brother, he’s two years older than me. I have two older brothers and one younger brother and he was working for me at my studio and he would come in, he would be there, but he would just be there and I had to constantly be on top of him about the presentation of what we were doing. Don’t come in here looking like everybody else, come in here with a pair of slacks, nice shirt, nice shoes or jeans. Just come in looking professional and my brother told me for a while he hated working for me. But at the end of all that he told me he loved it because the experience and what I was telling him when he did not like it actually helped him transition into where he’s at now to be a better professional.

Desmond:
But it used to be days when I would just come down on him because it wasn’t necessarily me being the brother, it was me being the businessman and trying to explain to him the appearance because he runs the studio. So, you can’t be a certain way, you can’t act a certain way or people are not going to respect you in a position that you hold if you are presenting yourself a certain way. And like I said, at the time it wasn’t received well, but later on it stuck in and he tells me to this day it made him a better leader himself and what he’s doing now, running communities and homeowners associations, it took all of that stuff with him and now he’s like one of the best in Central Florida.

Eileen:
Well, and it took courage for you, right? To give feedback. I always say feedback’s a gift because it takes courage from the person who’s delivering it to go and share that. And when I’m finding in what you just said is either it was a blessing or a lesson and it may have been a hard time for anybody to hear bad feedback, but in the end it was a blessing, right? So, it takes courage from the person who’s giving the feedback and then, at the time the person may not want to receive it. But as you look back over time, you look back and you go, “Was that a blessing or a lesson?” And I think it may have from your story, might’ve been both. It was a lesson he learned and a blessing because he’s doing so well now, so it’s good.

Desmond:
Yeah. For me, as a younger brother, it was hard to come down on your older brother, but we’ve been through so much and we share so much coming up in life. It just became one of those things that I just wanted to see him at his best and I knew that he could be better than what he was doing and what he was given and somewhere along the line it clicked in and he became even better than he was before.

Eileen:
What a great story.

Alicia:
Oh, excellent story. But those are leadership qualities that you tend to have because you see something good in others or you see the potential in others. It’s that it’s a challenge at the beginning because again, it’s a sibling and we all have siblings and we all got little siblings and if you’d older brother or sister same happens to me. I have to go real hard on my sister. But I see those qualities. There’s trust there but we have to do it. So, great story because it really connects how you can still live within your family confines.

Eileen:
Well thank you so much Desmond for the conversation. We were wondering if you have any last words of wisdom to share with our listeners that you can leave with them?

Desmond:
Yeah, I’ll share something that just happened a couple nights ago. We’re all sitting around and I have my family there and everybody’s given their heights and everybody was an inch and a half taller than… It’s like none of you are that tall. And I was, I’m six three matter of fact, now I’m six two and seven eighths and I have the proof to prove it. And I’ve never looked at my combine stats before. And as I’m looking for my combine stats to see what my height was when they measured it just so I could show them. I scroll down and I see this big red ladder and in the combine I graded out at as an F. First time ever seeing that, a 37 out of 100. An F, and I always tell the story when I got out to Denver how I felt like I was not good enough to make the team because it just came off of two Super Bowls.

Desmond:
They have a Hall of Famer star in that tight end and the other two guys behind him, those two guys eventually made the Pro Bowl. So, and usually they only keep three tight ends. And in my head it’s like, “I’m not going to make the team,” but somebody told me, it was a scout that told me to stop competing with them and he said, “What you have to do is ask yourself how good you want to be. Forget about everybody else. How good do you want to be?” Then he said, “Now you got to do the hard part. How good are you right now? And be honest with yourself.” Then he told me every single day, I need to work on one single skill to continue to get better every single day.

Desmond:
And I think that piece of advice led me to 12 years in NFL. If that scout wouldn’t have told me that, my mindset would have been blown. If I would’ve seen that I was graded out as an F and I was already thinking that I wasn’t going to make the team, where would I have been? But now I have the mantra, I am my only competition. You’re not my competition, the next person that’s selling insurance is not my competition. I can only be as good as I can be. And when we focus like that on making ourselves better, then you get the best out of yourself. And that’s all you can ever ask from yourself.

Alicia:
Oh my gosh.

 

Eileen:
Wonderful, wonderful words of wisdom. Is right, competing, that is wonderful.

Alicia:
Oh, I mean I’ve received so much out of that, not competing with others. It’s just like having that identity of knowing who you are and then having a mentor or someone to tell you, you don’t compete with others.

Eileen:
You’re totally right. If you compete with others, you’re always going to find somebody who’s better or someone who is less.

Desmond:
Exactly. That’s exactly what I say. And then you feel less than when the person is better than you. And then when the person is not as good as you, you start getting complacent because well, I’m better than that person.

Alicia:
Right.

Desmond:
Yeah.

Eileen:
And then that’s the ego and I always say ego is edging God out, right? So, what it is, it’s putting yourself in saying, “How can I be a better person?” Just like you said every single day and anybody can do that. So, thank you for those wonderful words of wisdom. That is wonderful.

Alicia:
And then being able to just recognize that all of the times people don’t recognize and sit back and do what you said, wait a minute, I don’t have to compete with these others. I’m competing with myself, my best self. And so what does that look like? And you start to focus on that and you begin to build from that.

Eileen:
And it goes back to what you said at the beginning about adding value. When you add value to yourself and you grow and you learn, you can share that with others. That’s your part of your mission brought about us being all connected. So, it was kind of neat how this whole conversation came full circle.

Desmond:
And that’s basically, that’s what I try to go out and do every day. All I can share are my experiences. And just what I learned from those experiences. And that’s just kind of what is… And that’s how I figure I can add value to people and I can’t add value to everybody. There’s going to be some people out there that hey, a matter of fact I had a conversation on the way here and the guy he was asking me about getting into the sports business on the management side, and I was like, “I really don’t have a lot to give you because I know I was in sports but I was on the athletic side. I’d never been on the coaching side or the media side or any… I don’t have those connections so I don’t have a lot to offer you.”

Desmond:
But he did say, “Hey, I’m looking into getting into the hospitality side do the suite sales and things like that.” I was like, “Oh, I host the suites for the Chicago Bears and I know the guy who is over the suite sales. I can offer him to you and you can talk to him.” I didn’t know I was going to be able to offer that. I just thought I would love to help you, but I can’t. So, there’s not always the point where you can be a value and that’s okay, but when you can always try to be in the best thing that you can do is share your experiences with others, share your contacts or whatever that you have just share it.

Alicia:
It’s what you said, it’s you opening the door for others. If you’re not then you’re keeping the door closed. And then there’s that, I think I heard you said earlier, there’s a rewarding from that. You get reward, a sense of something, for me spiritually from God when you are helping. And I think what you Desmond, what you’re saying is you may not be able to help everybody or you may not be able to provide words of encouragement to everyone or be of service. But certainly if you can think about it or indulge in the conversation a little longer-

Desmond:
Just have the willingness.

Alicia:
Yes, the openness and willingness to do it and like just did for the young man, you didn’t know. It’s like, oh, okay.

Desmond:
And you never know how it’s going to come back. Another quick story.

Alicia:
Yes.

Eileen:
Yes, go ahead.

Desmond:
So, this just happened two weeks ago on LinkedIn. A guy connected with me and said, “Hey, how much do you charge for speaking engagements?” So, I said, “Hey, let’s get on the phone, let’s talk.” I got on the phone with this young lawyer. He was like, “I know you don’t remember this, but you came and did an autograph signing at New Trier High School.” And he said, “When you got done doing that autograph signing, you spent 20 minutes with me. And I was down because I had just lost my start position.” And he was like, “The stuff that you are writing now reminds me of everything that you told me 10 years ago.”

 

Alicia:
Wow.

Desmond:
And he was like, “Would you be willing to come in and share some of those stories at my law firm?”

Alicia:
Amazing.

Eileen:
So, the value you added how many years ago by signing an autograph? I mean this is why-

Alicia:
And spending 20 minutes after the signing of the autographs.

Eileen:
And full comes around how many years later through a LinkedIn connection to give your same values oriented discussion to a group of attorneys? I mean it’s synchronicity. It really is.

Alicia:
Or just like he was saying, being authentic. I mean this is who Desmond is and so forth to come back. I mean that’s, I see it as a blessing. It’s like you sowed a seed years ago, full circle came back again, and then to be able to talk in front of lawyers and attorneys and people in the professional world, it’s a great thing to do. Because you can inspire them to be better leaders.

Desmond:
Yeah. And I’m having lunch with the guy because now I’m just intrigued. Who are you? Because I don’t remember. I don’t know what I said to you. But yeah, let’s have lunch man. I’d love to catch up with you and just talk and see what’s going on.

Eileen:
That’s a great story. Thank you.

Alicia:
And one of the things I always remember one of the late chairmans of the organization would say to me, “As long as people remember you, that’s all that matters.” So, if they remember you, that means you did something great or something good or if you were just kind to them and so obviously you did something great and now it’s coming back.

Desmond:
Can I share one more story because you just said kindness?

Alicia:
Yes. Absolutely.

Eileen:
Absolutely

Desmond:
This was just in December, and I was going through some tough times, transitions and I’m walking out of the house and it’s cold and I have on the same black stuff that I have on. I wear black everyday. I got my hoodie on, and I’m walking and I think I had my head down and this cab driver just out of nowhere, he was like, “Pick your head up brother, it’s going to be a good day.” And I just looked at him and I was just pointing at them. They can’t see me pointing in here, but I just pointed at him because he didn’t know what that meant to me that day. He was just being kind. And that it was dark that morning I was going to workout, that little simple act of kindness changed the whole trajectory of my day. You know what, it cost him nothing. Kindness is so easy.

Alicia:
It’s so free.

Desmond:
So free.

Eileen:
And we have to remember, I go back to humankind. We are here on this planet to be kind. It’s just part of who we are innately. And unfortunately, people put a barrier sometimes and by being kind you can break those barriers down very quickly.

Desmond:
And I actually posted that also because I was like, “That was real meaning.” Again, when people are always looking to you to add the energy, the value and the motivation and inspiration, a lot of times people don’t think about that person also needs the motivation, the inspiration and the kindness and all of that stuff delivered back to them was talking about filling up the cup and emptying the cup. That simple statement filled my cup that morning.

Alicia:
And wouldn’t say that it was a simple statement. I would say that was an angel that God sent for you. Because only God knows what we go through and always say as leaders or when you’re in a leadership role, it really does seem as lonely at the top. And to your point sometimes, we people don’t understand that we need to be filled too. And so, that spiritual connection knew that you needed those kind words. So, whether in small, but it was big because encouraging someone is free too. It’s free. And you just never know what something that kind would do to a person to help them.

Eileen:
Yeah. You never know what people are going through. And at the beginning of our discussion today, you said something about leaders not being judgmental. And we’re all going through something and judging people is the lowest energy you can have. So, little kind words, not judging and just being there for someone can make all the world of difference. It really can.

Alicia:
Yes. Well then, this has been great.

Eileen:
Yes, it has been wonderful.

Alicia:
Desmond you were everything that I heard. Eileen and I had many meetings and I pray a lot, Eileen does too. And we talked and I said, “I know he’s just going to be a great fit.” And so, what do you think?

Eileen:
I think it was wonderful. You are definitely a soulful leader, a servant leader and a spiritual leader and we are so, so happy to have you here to share your message because we know it’ll change the energy of many people with your stories. Like we said, stories are the bridge between your heart and your head and this is how people change.

Alicia:
And I think when I hear you talk and I’ve seen you do a lot, I know you winning. I know that as leaders and people in business and entrepreneurs, we want to see things right away. But we can’t demise the small beginnings because we have to start somewhere. And I think a lot of the seed you have been sowing in and continue so, will be explosive to you coming soon and you have a sense of integrity, wisdom and you are winning. It’s just you went in a way that you can’t see it all right away. That’s what I see.

Desmond:
You guys are going to keep me talking in here. So, you’ve mentioned winning and that’s the book that I’m writing, Principles of Winning.

Eileen:
Oh my gosh. You’re in the process of writing a new book. Great.

Desmond:
Process of writing my new book, Principles of Winning. As always, it’s talking about a lot of these things that we’re talking about right now. Just, what does your word and name mean to you? Integrity. And if you want to take it to a corporate building or people, your brand, you name. And then we’re talking about how to treat people kindly and encourage people. The principle number two is the power of relationships. Number three is the pursuit of excellence that we talked about every day trying to be better and being intentional about those things that you want to get better at. So, you mentioned winning and I’m like, “Oh my God, this thing is going to never end.”

Eileen:
Hey, this is great. This is what the discussion is all about. We want you to share your stories. This is a wonderful and congratulations on writing another book. That’s not an easy feat. I’ll tell you that.

Desmond:
I have great helps.

Alicia:
Yes. And what that means Dr. Eileen is that we’re going to have him back after the book is published and so it really connects to what we are doing. And so, and he’s a good friend, so he’ll never say no to us. Right?

Desmond:
You got that on record?

Alicia:
Yes. Absolutely

Eileen:
So great. Well, this has been wonderful and thank you again.

Desmond:
You’re welcome. Thanks for having me on.

Alicia:
Absolutely. Thank you.

Eileen:
Wonderful. Thank you for joining us on Soul of a Leader podcast. We are knighting a new way of leading with your soul and interviewing ordinary people with extraordinary impact. Thank you for listening to the stories of our leaders who will help and guide you on your leadership journey. For more information on our podcast, please visit our website at http://www.soulofaleader.com. Thank you for listening.